Talk:Calabrian Greek

Untitled

Shouldn't the article be named Greek-Calabrian dialect? Roderick Mallia 12:24, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

yes, it could be. You can change the title. --Ilario 12:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

OK - done Roderick Mallia 14:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Grecanic and Griko

"Grecanic" is a term used to indicate both Calabrian Greek and Salento's Greek and it means "nearly Greek", "somehow Greek". It is derived from the (medieval?) latin word "graecanicus" maybe in opposition with "romanicus". Most scholars and first the german Gerhard Rohlfs have used this word to indicate the Italo-Greek communities and their language. "Griko" also written as Grico means "Greek" in the Salento's variant of Grecanic language and it is the name used by native speakers of Salento to indicate their own language. For this reason the Greek dialect of Salento is known also as Griko or Grico. Calabrian Greeks call their own language mostly "Greko/Greco", but also "Griko" is used (or was used?) in some Calabrian villages. For this reason we have decided right now to call "Griko" the WiktionaryZ entry for grecanic language, but it is arbitrary. If we want to remain close to the current use we must say that Grecanic and Italiot Greek indicate both variants, while Griko indicates only the Salento's Greek. That's why I have made the change (Griko - Grecanic), maybe we should correct also other pages on this issue, I hope to give more contributions in future. Frangisko 09:21, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

It could be correct, but also in Italy there is a lot of misunderstandings about two versions as you can see here Griko language. In any case Grecanic or Katoitaliótika defines the two versions jointly, but the denomination of "Griko" could not be assigned only to version of Grecìa Salentina, because this denomination is how the Grecanic call their own language. It could be correct to use "Calabrian Griko" and "Salentin Griko" --Ilario 09:33, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Allerga-su, aputten èrkese? I can't completely agree with you, the misunderstanding about Griko doesn't seem to me so relevant. Griko is the name used by Salento's native speakers to call their own language, and it is possibly used by a single Calabrian village. Most Calabrian Greeks say "Greko" instead as you can see here: http://www.webalice.it/jackstunt/.

However let's keep the previous version, as I said we have called "Griko" the native name of Grecanic language on WiktionaryZ, but Calabrians could disagree with this annexation. Stasu kalò Frangisko 10:29, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Proofread needed

I just did the last bit, but I think it all needs a final proofread - I have to admit there were parts towards the end that I found a little bit repetitive (either that I translated poorly!). ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!) 12:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Question

Reading this, we seem to put a very strong claim forward for why it shouldn't be considered a dialect. Clearly Greek Calabrian had a parallel and separate history to Modern Greek from at least the Byzantine period (and most probably beyond). It doesn't even seem to be influenced by Modern Greek. There is probably little mutual understanding between the two languages. If it is a dialect - what is it a dialect of? Or is it really a language in its own right. Just because there aren't many speakers, or it has had a limited literary history, doesn't mean that it need be considered a dialect. Does Ethnologue refer to it at all? Does Ethnologue even know that it exists? ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!) 07:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I've written this article in Italian language and I've used a philological criterion:

• an idiom is language if it has got "registers" i.e. if this idiom is used in a lot of environments like administration, literature, justice;
• an idiom is language also if this idiom has strong differences from another language.

I've applied the two criterions jointly. I've not used other criterion like ISO, Ethnologue and so on. In any case at start and at end of this article I've noted that its use is in familiar or daily communication and actually the efforts to its progression toward a language status is very difficult. Actually there is a law in Italy that judge this idiom like language. It's a legal recognition but it isn't a "philological" recognition. In any case the main problem is that the Greek-Calabrians themselves think of our idiom to be a dialect. --Ilario 10:16, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

As for what Ethnologue says: "The Greek of Italy and that of Corsica are probably separate languages (R. Zamponi 1992)." [1] However it does not appear to separate it officially yet. —Muke Tever talk 22:03, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Azure->Blue

This is no big deal, but I just wanted to mention that "azure" is an acceptable English word being roughly the same colour as sky blue. ρ¡ρρµ δ→θ∑ - (waarom? jus'b'coz!) 23:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• WIKITONGUES- Maria Olimpia speaking Greko and Italian.webm

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Calabrian Greek is written in the Greek Script

Here’s proof. The comune of Bova Marina has street signs in both Italian and Greek, written in the Greek script, so stop changing the template to “Latin script” 2600:1700:6730:E380:61E0:94CF:3BEB:D63E (talk) 16:22, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

There are a few problems with this. First, I don't see those signs. (If your response to that is "Well, I've seen them", then see WP:OR.) Second, maybe they're meant to be Greek-Greek, not Calabrian Greek. Third, I've provided an actual source in the text of the article that contradicts you. Unless you come up with reliable sources that say that Calabrian Greek is written in Greek script and not in Latin script, you stop changing it. Largoplazo (talk) 16:55, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Open Google Maps, enable street view, and click on a intersection in Bova Marina, the street signs are written in Italian and Calabrian Greek, in the GREEK SCRIPT. 2600:1700:6730:E380:61E0:94CF:3BEB:D63E (talk) 16:29, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

You can't even be bothered to give us a link? And you're choosing to ignore all the rest of what I've written on this subject. You saw street signs in one place, therefore every single person who reports that it's generally written in the Latin alphabet is wrong and the examples I showed you don't exist? That isn't how this works. Largoplazo (talk) 16:51, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

For what it's worth, in this display of the same text in three languages—English, Calabrian Greek, and Greek—, the Calabrian Greek is written in the Latin alphabet. If you drill down to the response by Alexander Mathey in this Quora thread, you'll see text side-by-side in Calabrian Greek and Greek. The former is in Latin script, and Mathey asserts that they use Latin script. These don't meet the standard for reliable sources but they suggest that we not take your insistence and your report about a few signs as sufficient to conclude that Calabrian Greek is typically written in Greek script. Largoplazo (talk) 17:11, 2 June 2023 (UTC)