Talk:Camden, New Jersey

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Candle bb lady, Mac147, Dacr348, Rustygreaves, Happiness47, Scary Ghosty, Rutgersgirl81, Hmb97, Oakland528.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:36, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

RCA

Some mention of RCA might be in order. IIRC, the Camden record label was named after the city and they had a pressing plant there. I remember seeing a large tank with the RCA logo from across the river.

Photos

Do we really need the first picture to be of the prison? Can anyone find a better picture?

Camden famous persons' list incomplete

I think boxing champion hall of famer dwight qawi (born dwight braxton)grew up in camden - altough born in baltimore - should be included in the famous persons' list. His monicker was 'the camden buzzsaw' and fought against george foreman, matthew saad muhammad and evander holyfield among others.

I agree, Dwight Qawi should be included. Also, the great American haiku poet Nick Virgilio should be mentioned - reference http://www.nickvirgiliohaikuassociation.org/

What about Bruce Gorden president of NAACP graduated from Camden High 1964.

You should add Crystal Waters, singer to the list. She grew up in North Camden and attended Morgan Village Middle School. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sallymarcal (talk • contribs) 19:54, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Tone seems negative

The overall tone of the article seems rather negative which would violate WP:NPOV. FunkyChicken! 05:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I live in Haddonfield, and trust me, the tone seems negative because that is the overall tone of the city's current state. To ignore that would be falsly presenting the city. Aufs klo 22:04, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Dead on! Jersey John (talk) 09:54, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there is a lot to be negative about. --DThomsen8 (talk) 01:16, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Camden used to be a great thriving city and in due time it will return to its status as one of the greatest cities in New Jersey. R.KennedyCFD

I heard that the Camden governmental structure was taken over by the Feds, due to rampant corruption. Is this true? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.23.105.146 (talk) 08:52, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

This looks accurate

It looks like a very accurate and neutral article to me... I cannot see anything that says otherwise.

66.50.230.85 21:47, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Fictional characters

Is there a significant number of fictional characters from Camden? The only one that I am aware of is Dawnn Lewis' character Jaleesa Vinson from the TV series A Different World. 14:21, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The Cooper River

Camden is over 15% water, not all of which is the Delaware, the Cooper River is also a significant (moreso in terms of recreation) river which runs through Camden. All along it's banks (and thorugh camden as well) there are parks, and the river is very popular for rowing and crew teams (the Camden County Boathouse is located in Camden along the Cooper). Perhaps it could be put into the georgaphy section, or maybe a small section could be added about the river in Camden? Aufs klo 22:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Tragedy in Camden

Is it relevant to devote so much space to a sordid news item in a city article? Maybe it would sound better to put it in a different article (if any) (such as "Camden Tragedy of July 2005") and, perhaps, if needed, refer to it in the main Camden article. I'd suggest dropping this "tragedy" from this text. --Camcom 14:05, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree….First, why pick just this tragedy,…not to sound frivolous…..but we are talking about Camden here, which has a tragedy everyday, why highlight one over the other. Second, you have already stated the crime statistics which is a tragedy in and of it-self. Get rid of the paragraph regarding the deaths of these three young boys.Shoessss 20:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it should be a separate article if it is retained. In its current state, however, I wouldn't feel comfortable creating an article myself since there are no sources cited. I would rather see it developed with sources first to demonstrate notability. Accurizer 17:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Riversharks.JPG

Image:Riversharks.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Ongoing vandalism by fraternity members

See Talk:Cooper University Hospital for information about persistent vandalism on another Camden-related article, presumably by the same person or persons who keep vandalizing Camden, New Jersey. It appears to be an ongoing campaign by members of the Tau Kappa Epsilon fraternity. Typical tactics involve inserting false allegations of gang violence in Camden or swapping existing photos for the same image of earthquake ruins, often with misleading edit summaries. Still more information is here and here. —Whoville (talk) 00:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I've semi-protected this page for 3 months, per your request on WP:AN. Please let me know if the problems persist. -- The Anome (talk) 00:57, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Translation into Chinese Wikipedia

The 22:10, 3 November 2008 Darkpharmer version of this article is translated into Chinese Wikipedia.--Wing (talk) 16:48, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Riverfront State Prison

This subsection under the section heading "Crime" needs updating.

In 2009, the State of NJ announced its decision to close the prison due to lowered inmate population statewide and at the Riverfront State Prison and because of the widely-held belief that such a valuable piece of property would provide greater value to the community if redeveloped.

Here is a link to one article on the subject: [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davetskinner (talk • contribs) 17:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Contradicting line

The Demographics section says this city is 50% non hispanic black and then says it is 42.82% Puerto Rican. This needs to be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.146.74.177 (talk) 18:36, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Municipal Budget and Finance Info Needed

To Whom It May Concern; I enjoyed the Camden N.J. article/info page quite a bit. However, I would like to see some basic information on the Municipal budget rather than snippets and small pieces. Annual budget figures, total municipal government employment, average municipal pay rates, etc., could help readers make some reasonable comparisons with other cities in the country.

Thanks a bunch. 50.46.214.129 (talk) 21:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Mistake; Vie

In the section 4.1 "Government" # "Local government", it says "Vie President"; does this mean "Vice President"?--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 06:27, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Camden, USA

Quote from beginning of article: Although once a thriving center for manufacturing and industry, Camden is perhaps best known for its struggles with urban decay and political corruption.

Three Camden mayors have been jailed for corruption, the most recent being Milton Milan in 2000.[24] From 2005 to 2012, the school system and police department were operated by the state of New Jersey.

Camden public schools spent $23,770 per student ($19,118 on a budgetary per-pupil basis) in the 2009–10 school year[25] In 2012, the city's graduation rate fell to 49%, well below the state average of 86%.[26] and the national average of 93%.[27] In 2012, 3 out of 882 SAT test-takers were scored "college-ready", defined as a combined score of 1550 or higher on the three sections of the test, a standard met by 43% of students taking the exam nationwide.[28] Among residents, 40% are below the national poverty line.[29]

Camden had the highest crime rate in the United States in 2012, with 2,566 violent crimes for every 100,000 people,[30] which is 560% higher than the national average of 387 violent crimes per 100K citizens.[31]

Then going further down & reading about corruption, crime... What a sad article!

Welch eine Schande!

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/camilo-jose-vergara-tracking-time-in-braunschweig-fotostrecke-120145-9.html

--90.2.119.16 (talk) 07:27, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Camden, New Jersey

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Camden, New Jersey's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Committee":

• From Mendham Township, New Jersey: Mendham Township Committee, Mendham Township. Accessed January 20, 2015.
• From Waterford Township, New Jersey: Committee Members, Waterford Township. Accessed March 11, 2015.
• From Pennsauken Township, New Jersey: Township Committee, Pennsauken Township. Accessed July 8, 2014.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 06:45, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Civil unrest and crime

User:Patrug restored some text regarding the riot of September 1969. While it may be important to put this event on the page, there are two issues with its current implementation:

1) It is definitely not neutral. "Camden experienced a fatal anti-police riot in September 1969." The word "fatal" and the phrase "anti-police" put flags up for me. If it is a direct quote, then fine, but it needs to have quotation marks if it is.

2) Why is this information preceding a paragraph about the Riots of 1971? There is a two-year gap here. The riot of 1969 should have its own bullet point above the Riots of 1971. Each point in the heading Civil unrest and Crime is chronologically ordered. I also fail to see the relationship between the two riots. If there is a relationship, it should be stated at the end of the new paragraph for the riot of September 1969.

We should definitely consider adding a paragraph for this topic. At the very least, we need to reword the sentence that exists.

Scary Ghosty (talk) 22:08, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

@Scary Ghosty: Thanks for the note. I'm impressed with your work for this Rutgers course, and I agree with a couple of your points above. Please consider, though:

According to the 1969 New York Times reference, the 1969 riot was triggered by reports of "police brutality", leading to "thrown bricks at police patrol cars cruising through the area", escalating until two people including a police officer were killed by an unknown shooter. Feel free to rewrite or expand my summary sentence in the article – but what's "not neutral" about accurately calling this a fatal anti-police riot?

According to the 2007 Courier-Times reference, the riots of 1969 and 1971 "deepened Camden's divisions", in the context of "cities that had seen manufacturing shut down and middle-class white families flee to suburbs". What's wrong with Wikipedia following the Courier-Times by describing the riots as an important pair of similar events speeding Camden's decline just two years apart?

According to the 1973 New York Times reference, the "Camden 28" break-in occurred on August 21, 1971. Wouldn't it be helpful for Wikipedians to realize this was during the 1971 riot?

According to a local historian's 2011 introduction to the Courier-Times article, "The two riots were the worst events to hit the city of Camden until crack cocaine hit the streets in 1985–1986. The Riot of 1969 fatally weakened Camden. The Riot of 1971 mortally wounded Camden. Crack cocaine was the coup de grace." Given the subsequent middle-class flight that decimated the city's economy, wouldn't it be misleading for Wikipedia to present the riots as isolated & disconnected events?

According to Wikipedia:Prose versus lists, "Prose is preferred in articles, as prose allows the presentation of detail and clarification of context, in a way that a simple list may not. Prose flows, like one person speaking to another. It is best suited to articles, because their purpose is to explain. In an article, significant items should normally be mentioned naturally within the text rather than merely listed."

So, I agree with you that the current version of the "Civil unrest and crime" section reads awkwardly. I think the better solution is not to describe the events more disconnectedly, but rather to do the opposite, rewriting the bulletpoints into a couple of true paragraphs of coherent prose explaining these events in fuller context and perspective. Want to give it a try? —Patrug (talk) 01:05, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

@Patrug: I agree that the events probably shouldn't be listed, rather they should be gone through sequentially to better show their relationships.

I'm still not sure how I feel about the word "fatal" or how I feel about the relationship between the two riots. I concede that they have a relationship to the extent that they both contributed to the decline of Camden, but I'm still not sure that makes them actually connected. Falling population numbers and slowing industry also contributed to the decline of Camden, but I wouldn't necessarily say that they are directly related to the riot of 1969.

I'd be happy to change the page to reflect our discussion, specifically regarding the bulletpoint list. I still sort of disagree about the riot of 1969, but I take your points. Before I change anything regarding it, I'd like to do some research and see what I can find. Scary Ghosty (talk) 14:30, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Crime Statistics

It appears that the crime rate box in the main "Crime" section is showing volume, not rate. The listed source is Table 8 of the FBI CIUS, but this table shows "offenses known to law enforcement" - aka total number of offenses.

To convert to crime rate, each of these volumes would need to be divided by 0.78980 (listed population of Camden / 100,00). So for instance, the murder rate would be 34÷0.7898 = 43.05 murders per 100,000 residents.

199.193.145.98 (talk) 01:51, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

References

New York Times on Camden policing

This New York Times article might be useful as a reference: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/02/nyregion/camden-nj-police-shootings.html Eastmain (talk • contribs) 03:05, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Misleading on Crime

The top of the article clearly tries to cvorrelate the abolition of police with the decrease of crime, but fails to include that they still have police. The state and neighboring districts had to import their own to police the city after the abolition of policing.Wordbearer88 (talk) 03:45, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

"Camden Township, New Jersey" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Camden Township, New Jersey and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 16#Camden Township, New Jersey until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TartarTorte 20:48, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

New & old buildings

The Benjamin Franklin Bridge eastern tower at 380 ft (120 m) is tallest structure in Camden

RCA Victor buildings and City Hall

View to 330 Cooper, Mitchell Courthouse, Wilson Building, and City Hall

Camden, New Jersey is located on the Delaware River in the Delaware Valley/Philadelphia metropolitan area in the US. At 380 ft (120 m), a tower of the Benjamin Franklin Bridge is the tallest structure in the city. Camden City Hall, at 370 ft (110 m), has been the tallest building in the city since 1931. Several buildings of the Victor Talking Machine Company (which became part of RCA Victor in 1929) dot the city's skyline, which also includes late 20th century residential high-rises. Proposals to build two towers of 590 ft (180 m) and 450 ft (140 m) on the waterfront were unveiled in September 2015.

Rank	Name	Image	Neighborhood	Height ft / m	Floors	Year	Notes
1	Camden City Hall		Downtown	113 m (371 ft)	18	1931	Tallest building in Camden since 1931. and tallest in the Delaware Valley outside of Philadelphia.
2	Northgate II		North Camden	69 m (226 ft)	23	1979	Residential highrise
3	Triad1828 Centre		Waterfront	67 m (220 ft)	18	2018 (topped out)
4	Northgate I		North Camden	60 m (200 ft)	21	1962	Residential highrise
5	330 Cooper		Cooper-Grant	45 m (148 ft)	12	2012	Rutgers-Camden student housing
6	Our Lady of Lourdes Medical Center		Parkside Gateway	43 m (141 ft)	10	1950
7	Nipper Building		Waterfront Cooper-Grant	37 m (121 ft) plus tower	10	1916	Residences known as The Victor inspired by Nipper logo for the RCA Victor when it was known as Building 17.
8	One Port Center		Central Waterfront	41 m (135 ft)	11	1996	Delaware River Port Authority
9	Riverview Towers		Waterfront	40 m (130 ft)	15	1977	Residential high-rise
10	Keleman Pavilion		Lanning Square	40 m (130 ft)	10	1978	Cooper University Hospital
11	Wilson Building		Downtown	38 m (125 ft)	12	1926	Commercial
12	Victor Executive Building		Cooper-Grant	38 m (125 ft)	8	1916	RCA Building No. 2. also once home to Camden City Public Schools
12	RCA Factory Building No. 8		Cooper-Grant Waterfront	38 m (125 ft)	10	1924	Radio Lofts (proposed)
13	Patient Pavilion		Lanning Square	37 m (121 ft)	10	2008	Cooper University Hospital
14	Camden Tower		Cooper-Grant	37 m (121 ft)	11	1989	Rutgers-Camden housing
15	JFK Towers		Marlton	37 m (121 ft)	10	1964	Residential highrise
16	Mitchell H. Cohen US Courthouse		Cooper Grant		6	1994	United States District Court for the District of New Jersey

Camden skyline from Philadelphia

In May 2013 the New Jersey Economic Development Authority announced that it would seek developers for the site of the demolished Riverfront State Prison just north of the Central Waterfront and the Benjamin Franklin Bridge in Cooper Point. In September 2013 Waterfront Renaissance Associates announced that it proposed to a develop a 2.3-million-square-foot commercial complex on 16 acres (6.5 ha) called the Riverfront World Trade Center. The project would be built in four phases, the first of which would be a promenade along the Delaware River.The plan calls for two 22-story and two 18-story buildings.

In October 2013, Herschend Family Entertainment announced they would add an attraction adjacent to the Adventure Aquarium, a 300 ft (91 m), 25-story observation tower ride with a moored balloon and gondola that would carry passengers above the site offering views of city, the Delaware River and the Philadelphia skyline to be built by Skyview Tower Systems. The 300 ft (91 m) Skyview Tower, a combination gyro tower and moored balloon, in the city's entertainment district on the Camden Waterfront was expected to open in 2015. The structure is three rod towers joined at intervals by circular hoops Propelled by a winch, lightweight carriage disguised within the balloon envelope ascends the tower. The gondola beneath the balloon acts as floating circular walkway for a maximum of 40 passengers.

In September 2015, Liberty Property Trust unveiled a proposal to build two towers, one 590 ft (180 m) tall and another 450 ft (140 m) as part a master plan on the waterfront designed by Robert A. M. Stern. Called Camden Towers it all include an 18-story building the waterfront. Construction began in 2017.

Wiki Education assignment: Writing Wikipedia

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2024 and 8 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Harleiquill (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Harleiquill (talk) 21:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Harleiquill, you and your fellow student editors need to understand that Wikipedia is not a directory, a newspaper, or an indiscriminate collection of information. Please only include content that is notable and content that is encyclopedic to this article. Please also read article size, as of May 8, 2024, this article now contains over 17,000 words of readable prose - the amount of viewable text in the main sections of the article, not including tables, lists, or footer sections.

The article size impacts usability in multiple ways:

• Reader issues, such as attention span, readability, organization, information saturation, etc. (when articles are large);
• Maintenance, such as articles becoming time-consuming to maintain when they are very long;
• Technical issues, such as size limits imposed by the MediaWiki software.

In the future, please keep these tips in mind. Thanks. Isaidnoway (talk) 05:35, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

General deletions

@Drwho407: I notice that you recently have been culling parts of the page. But can you provide an explanation for this edit? The history of crime in Camden has been one of its national stories, and I don't quite see why we are removing the statistics from recent years. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 19:14, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Separate article about Crime in Camden, New Jersey

I notice that User:Drwho407 has started a new article about Crime in Camden, New Jersey which seems to be developing into an alternate version of the section about crime in this article. It appears to refer to additional information that is not mentioned here and I wonder if it would be useful to merge the two articles. Unfortunately, I know very little about this place and am looking for somebody who is a more knowledgeable about the city to comment. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 08:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

What leads you to suggest it's a CFORK rather than a subarticle? Nikkimaria (talk) 05:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria: This edit completely removed the section on crime, including the heading - without a clear explanation of why this was happening. The edit was subsequently reverted by another user. Had that been a sub article then the section would have been retained with a "Main article:" link, like the previous section about the Camden County Police Department (CCPD). The net effect now is a content fork. Whether this is a good thing or not depends on the user's intentions, which are not explained by their edit summaries, or elsewhere. Other users appear to also not understand what is happening, either. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 07:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Poor communication isn't the distinguishing feature between a fork and a split, though - it's all about the content. In this case the content from this article was moved into that one, there's now a shorter version here, and AFAICS there isn't a significant POV difference between the two - unless there's something on the latter I'm missing, this reads like a split, not a fork. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:45, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

I am trying to establish if that is the intent of the changes, as the lack of communication means I am uncertain what is going on. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 18:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello Cameron Dewy, Sorry for the lack of communication I had some heath concern that I needed to attend to. I have been responding to each one of your messages now so sorry if I repeat myself again in this one, im not sure which ones you have or have not seen prior to this one and I don't want to cause anymore confusion then I already have for you. Again I apologize for any frustration caused. Crime in Camden has long been an issue and i was creating additions to add on to the subpage that was on the Camden Nj page but it would be extensive so i thought that it made more sense to have a seperate article to add it all too. As mentioned I another message, my heath concern delayed the compiling of new sources and info to add to the new article though intended to add them tonight. You mention the crime sub on the CCPD page, that page was a mess and still is as language relating to the defunct and current police force were used interchangibily. Ive been trying to make sure there is a clear and distinct difference between the two as they are not the same. Tnank you. Drwho407 (talk) 20:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Drwho407: Crime in Camden is a legitimate topic to be covered in the article about Camden, New Jersey. However, it is not a responsibility of the Police department, or the Government. Crime is a social issue that should be under a top level heading like the History, Economy or Culture is. You cannot take the Crime section out of Camden and just plonk it in a separate article. If you want to have an in-depth article about Crime in Camden, you at least need a summary section to introduce the article about Crime in the Camden, New Jersey article itself. While I understand that issues with policing in Camden have resulted in crime being higher than in other places, historically, the restructuring of the Police in Camden has lead to the Police being more effective at policing crime. While the police are more effective at preventing crime, the Police are not directly responsible for crime, but exist to prevent and reduce it. Having the article explain what has happened to the police is something that should be covered by the main article, and it should include a bit of history to explain what happened, rather than hiding in separate pages about the police and crime. While the two topics might be related, Police and Crime can and should be dealt with separately under seperate headings in the main article. I am not convinced you need separate articles, and think you should deal with these issues in the main article, instead. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 08:57, 22 November 2024 (UTC)