Talk:Camilo Cienfuegos

early years

In the article is said, that Cienfuegos' family fled Spain because of the Civil War. That war started in 1936. Does someone know how Cienfuegos, who was born in 1932, could be born in Havana, four years before the war? Was it maybe a foster family? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.135.70.247 (talk) 08:39, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

The family left Spain before the civil war. Camilo was born in Lawton La Habana in 1932 and his parents were his natural parents. Clearly there's a mistake as to when exactly his parents left Spain. Mickavellian (talk) 01:18, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

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GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Camilo Cienfuegos/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Blue Rider (talk · contribs) 19:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Hello! Good to see a WP:VA biography being brought to GA status. I will try to post my first review until the end of this week. Thank you! The Blue Rider 19:38, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks very much for taking this one! This is my fourth vital GA nomination. I'll be away over the weekend, so I'll probably get around to addressing your comments some time next week. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:12, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

@The Blue Rider: Thanks for the review. I'm going to need a few more days to get around to addressing your comments, as I've come down with something during my time away. Once I've recovered, I'll get right to it. --Grnrchst (talk) 15:11, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• "in some cases even being considered second only to Fidel himself" contradicts him being "widely considered second only to Fidel Castro".

• Removed "widely" to be safe. To be clear, the source in this case says he "bid fair to become almost as popular as Castro himself and was "the man best loved in Cuba after Castro". Let me know if you think this can be improved further. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:21, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Per MOS:LEADLENGTH, it is reccomended that leads have 3 or 4 paragraphs, so I would suggest merging the first paragraph with the second.

• I've merged some of the paragraphs, it's down to four now. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:21, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Early life

• Add a wikilink to wreath.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• What type of illegal work did Camilo?

• Source doesn't say. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Why/How did he join Fidel Castro's movement?

• Source doesn't say. I would have to look into this. He was already active in the anti-Batista movement, so I can only assume that was one of his main motives. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Guerrilla activities

Landing and first offensive

• Add wikilink to vanguard.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:25, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

In Guevara's Column

• Substitute Sierra Maestra with region, in "over the region" and then start the next sentence with region.

• Good catch, done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• The armed groups are the revolutinaries, the national army or both? I also take issue with how the word anarchy is being used, I understand that its popular meaning is being used here but maybe substitute it with chaos.

• Some revolutionaries, but also some unaffiliated outlaw bands. I've rewritten the sentence, let me know what you think. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Add wikilink to Lalo Sardiñas.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Remove the wikilink to vanguard since it will be linked in the above section.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Add a Wikitionary link to "devil-may-care" since it's not a common expression.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Add a inter wikilink to Juan Pablo Chang Navarro.

• This doesn't appear to be the same person. Juan Pablo Chang Navarro was killed in Bolivia in 1967, where this "Chino Chang" was executed in Cuba in 1957. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Ops! I guess there are two Chino Chang involved in guerrilas. The Blue Rider 12:54, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Add wikilink to insurgent.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Independent command

• Since Fulgencio Batista was only mentioned once in the Early life section add the first name in his first mention of this section.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Add wikilink to death squad.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Las Villas Operation

• Remove duplicated wikilink from Popular Socialist Party (Cuba)

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:41, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Put the province name in Trinidad, since people might associate the town with the island, Trinidad, instead.

• Clarified. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:41, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Add wikilink to materiel.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:41, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Revolutionary victory

• Clarify that La Cabaña is a fortress.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:53, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Do you think that Camp Columbia (Havana) merits a redlink?

• Added. Thankfully this note made me realised I had unconsciously hispanisied the name to "Colombia", but all the sources use the spelling "Columbia" because the base was originally established by the Americans during the first occupation of Cuba. Glad I caught this. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:53, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Add a Wikitionary link to "en-masse".

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:53, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Add a wikilink to Presidental Palace, Museum of the Revolution (Cuba).

After the Revolution

Initial activities

• Put the PSP acronym in paranthesis in the first instance of Popular Socialist Party of the section.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:59, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• The economic meaning of austerity isn't being used here, so remove the wikilink.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:59, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Consolidation of the Revolution

• All good here.

Huber Matos affair

• Why were the officers worried by the Castro's regime?

• "Castro's consolidation of power, as well as the increasing role of the Popular Socialist Party in government, began to worry some officers in the Revolutionary Army" Is this not clear enough? I thought it was pretty obvious. --Grnrchst (talk) 13:00, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• I don't know why I missed that, but yes, it's pretty obvious. The Blue Rider 13:11, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Disappearance

• All good here.

Character

Personality

• Is Hugh Thomas, Hugh Thomas, Baron Thomas of Swynnerton? If so, add a wikilink.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 13:05, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Was Cienfuegos gay/bisexual? If so, clarify that since two quotes describe him as gay and other as having a love of women.

• Oh no, this was at a time before "gay" had the connotations of sexuality. I'm 90% sure they're using the original definition of "happy"/"carefree". --Grnrchst (talk) 13:05, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• This sections relies too much on quotations, try to rephrase it.

• I've been looking at this section for a few days now and I'm still struggling with how I could rephrase it. These are all such subjective views of his personality that I'm not sure how I could possibly neutralise them into wikivoice. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:24, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Political ideology

• All good here.

Leadership style

• This section relies too much on quotations, try to rephrase them.

• The quotations here and in the personality section were two places where I felt it very difficult to put it into wikivoice, because these reflections almost always come from personal perspectives. I can give it a go, but I already struggled with it in the first place. --Grnrchst (talk) 16:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Maybe try to say, "According to X Cienfuegas was Y or X described Cienfuegos has Y. If that doesn't work then it's fine. The Blue Rider 18:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

  Ok, I've managed to rewrite the quotes in the leadership style section. I'll have to think further about the personality section though, as I'm not sure how possible it is. --Grnrchst (talk) 09:42, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Legacy

Speculation about disappearance

• All good here.

Friends and family

• All good here.

Memorial dedications

• Add a wikilink to diorama.

• Done. --Grnrchst (talk) 13:10, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Popular culture

• This section seems to be lacking for a highly popular figure, isn't there more pop culture depictions of him?

• If I'd come across more, I would have added more. Tried searching around just now but couldn't find anything else. --Grnrchst (talk) 16:46, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Image(s)

• All images are correctly tagged and have suitable captions, pass!

Stability

• Some reverts here and there but overall stable, pass!

Sources

• All source numbers are from this version. Checked sources 1, 2, 3, 9, 21, 23, 41, 48, 58, 103, 117, 118, 191 and 233.

• Source 1 is no longer available.
• Source 9, especifically Quirk, says some run away to the mountains and other to the south, the text only has the former.

Copyvio

• Earwig's Copyvio Detector points to 10,7% due to some partially copied sentences, I suggest them to be rephrased.

• Not sure where the 10.7% figure came from, Earwig never showed that for me. It only highlighted a wee bit in the legacy section for me, so I cut it down a bit. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:25, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Infobox

• Infobox seems fine.

• @The Blue Rider: Hey, is there anything else you think I need to do? --Grnrchst (talk) 12:50, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

No, everything is in order! Good job on the article. You are missed at WP:VA! The Blue Rider 02:13, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 18:46, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Camilo Cienfuegos (left) watching Fidel Castro (right) speak after the victory of the Cuban Revolution

• ... that Cuban revolutionary Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured) was the son of Spanish anarchists? Source: Fernández, Frank (2001). Cuban Anarchism: The History of a Movement. Translated by Bufe, Charles. Tucson, Arizona: See Sharp Press. p. 80. ISBN 1-884365-19-1.
  • ALT1: ... that Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured) almost accidentally shot Che Guevara? Source: Thomas, Hugh (1970). Cuba: The Pursuit of Freedom. New York: Harper & Row. pp. 914–915. ISBN 0-06-014259-6. LCCN 70-108189.
  • ALT2: ... that the "devil-may-care personality" of Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured) was noted to have offset the strictness of Che Guevara? Source: Anderson, Jon Lee (1997). Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life. Grove Press. pp. 283–284. ISBN 0-8021-3558-7. LCCN 97-3993.
  • ALT3: ... that after the victory of the Cuban Revolution, television broadcasts showed Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured) freeing parrots from their birdcages, declaring that the birds had "a right to liberty"? Source: Thomas, Hugh (1970). Cuba: The Pursuit of Freedom. New York: Harper & Row. p. 1032. ISBN 0-06-014259-6. LCCN 70-108189.
  • ALT4: ... that after the victory of the Cuban Revolution, Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured) never took an official position in the new government, preferring to spend his time enjoying the nightlife of Havana? Source: López-Fresquet, Rufo (1966). My 14 Months with Castro. World Publishing Company. p. 58. LCCN 66-21126.
  • ALT5: ... that after the Cuban Revolution, Fidel Castro and Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured) played for a baseball team called "Los Barbudos" ("the Bearded ones")? Source: Guerra, Lillian (2012). Visions of Power in Cuba: Revolution, Redemption, and Resistance, 1959-1971. University of North Carolina Press. p. 73. ISBN 978-0-8078-3563-0. LCCN 2012004090.
  • ALT6: ... that when Fidel Castro began to consolidate power in Cuba, Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured) commented that "Fidel really likes to fuck around"? Source: Geyer, Georgie Anne (1991). Guerrilla Prince: The Untold Story of Fidel Castro. Little, Brown & Company. p. 245. ISBN 0-316-30893-5. LCCN 90-46379.
  • ALT7: ... that Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured) refused to handcuff Huber Matos after arresting him? Source: Guerra, Lillian (2012). Visions of Power in Cuba: Revolution, Redemption, and Resistance, 1959-1971. University of North Carolina Press. p. 86. ISBN 978-0-8078-3563-0. LCCN 2012004090.
  • ALT8: ... that after the disappearance of Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured), various speculations about his fate included allegations that he had been assassinated by Raúl Castro? Source: Thomas, Hugh (1970). Cuba: The Pursuit of Freedom. New York: Harper & Row. p. 1247. ISBN 0-06-014259-6. LCCN 70-108189.
  • ALT9: ... that on the anniversary of the disappearance of Camilo Cienfuegos (pictured), schoolchildren throw flowers into the seas and rivers of Cuba? Source: Casuso, Jorge (28 October 2009). "Who Killed Camilo Cienfuegos?". Miami New Times. Retrieved 24 August 2023.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ivanka Trump and Template:Did you know nominations/Thambi Naidoo
  • Comment: Apologies for the number of hooks. I just found Cienfuegos to be such an interesting character that I found so many examples of potentially interesting Did You Knows.

Improved to Good Article status by Grnrchst (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 32 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Grnrchst (talk) 13:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC).

• Wow, what a great article. It does an excellent job of describing its complex subject and its context, is impartial, and detailed to a fault. It is a recent GA, QPQs are done, hooks are in the article and referenced; it is hard to pick one, but if pressed I'd go with ALT4, because I feel it represents his character best. Constantine ✍ 19:08, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Validity of Death/ Mystery circumstances

There was never physical evidence of the Cessna crashing. However unlikely, his death or the existence of his purported Cessna have never been confirmed by recovered wreckage, or third party government intelligence agencies such as the United States. This makes Camilo Cienfuegos a unique figure outside of the revolutionary realm but also within the unsolved mysteries subjects. This could simply correspond to Cuban government sabotage against him. Nonetheless, as Camilo was born in 1932 he could still be alive and well today so please do not change presumed dates or ages. Beach00 (talk) 05:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)