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Talk:Canola oil/Archive 2

< Talk:Canola oil
Latest comment: 3 years ago by Zefr in topic Healthline as a source
Archive 1Archive 2
Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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North American POV

Latest comment: 4 years ago17 comments8 people in discussion

The article contains almost nothing about edible rapeseed production outside North America, and the perspective is very American too. It is a major crop throughout temperate regions of the world though not usually described as canola. I'm going to add a globalize tag. --Ef80 (talk) 13:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

It's not the same thing. Canola is a low-acid cultivar specially developed in Canada. Ultra Venia (talk) 00:43, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Canadians and Americans constantly assert this, but they're wrong. Canola was one of the early low acid cultivars, but there are now lots of different ones, both GM and non GM. In North America and Australia any edible rapeseed oil is referred to as 'canola' while elsewhere it's just called rapeseed oil or 'vegetable oil', but it's all the same stuff. If Canola isn't just a regional name for edible rapeseed oil in current usage, please produce a suitable reference. --Ef80 (talk) 19:06, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Or, how about YOU provide sources to support your statements? If you're right, then valid sources should not be difficult to find. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:10, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
The biggest producer of edible rapeseed oil in the world is China. Do Americans consider this to be 'canola' or not? If not, what is the difference? --Ef80 (talk) 22:37, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Who says they are? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:17, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Rapeseed_oil#Production --Ef80 (talk) 10:38, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
That article also says that Canola is a variety or subset of rapeseed. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
There are only two major modern uses for rapeseed oil: food and biodiesel. Significant amounts (maybe 10%) of North American and European production is processed into biodiesel thanks to subsidies, but the rest is used for food (cooking oil, margarine etc). China doesn't have a significant biodiesel industry so almost all the 13.5 million tonnes produced in 2009 will be low acid food grade. To repeat, is this stuff considered to be canola or not, and if not what is it? --Ef80 (talk) 17:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

This is a fascinating discussion. Here is what USDA says which is about authoritative for what "Americans" say as anything (from here):

The dramatic success of the canola brand in North America has caused the word "canola" to become synonymous with edible rapeseed in much the same way the word "Xerox" is understood to be a photocopy. Today, nearly all production in North America uses edible rapeseed varieties, and discussions of production typically refer only to canola. Other areas of the world where canola varieties are less widely used continue to use the term "rapeseed" for both edible and inedible varieties. This web page uses terminology familiar in North America.

Crop History

Since World War II, global production of rapeseed and canola has grown dramatically. During WWII, inedible rapeseed oil was used as a high-temperature lubricant on steam ships, but with the switch to diesel engines in the following decade, industrial demand declined. Initially, consumer demand for rapeseed oil was negligible because it naturally contains high amounts of erucic acid. Erucic acid was enough of a concern that in 1956, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) banned rapeseed oil for human consumption. In addition, demand for rapeseed meal was low because of high levels of glucosinolates, a compound that at high doses depresses animal growth rates.

By the early 1970s, plant breeders developed low-erucic acid rapeseed (LEAR) varieties that also had low glucosinolate content. In 1978, the Western Canadian Oilseed Crushers Association registered these varieties with the name "canola" for marketing reasons. Over the next 10 years, European seed producers also developed LEAR varieties, which they dubbed "double-zero" or "canola-equivalent."

Because of the higher palatability of LEAR varieties, FDA granted the oil produced from LEAR varieties Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) status on January 1, 1985. With its low level of saturated fat, LEAR oil appealed to health-conscious consumers, and production increased steadily.


In general the section on Production and Trade could easily be expanded a bit to include information on regions outside North America. Ditto the history section (there is content for citing in the USDA article above and plenty of others) Ef80, why don't you just add history information, and production information from other regions and thereby globalize the article? There is a ton of information on global production here: http://www.fas.usda.gov/wap/current/ I cannot imagine that anybody would object. Jytdog (talk) 17:40, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

The problem with the article as it stands is it confuses Canola (the 1978 Canadian cultivar) with canola (the North American term for all edible rapeseed oil). It should really just be about Canola, with more general info moved to rapeseed. I hesitate to do this because I know what the reaction of (some) American editors will be, and I'm also not an expert on the subject. --Ef80 (talk) 10:55, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
I see your point. This is something I really struggle with in wikipedia.... articles that are meant to provide detailed information on one aspect of a bigger topic sometimes expand to cover stuff that really should be handled under the bigger topic. I am not sure that there should be even a separate article for canola.... there was a merge discussion back in 2007 that agreed to the merge but nobody did anything. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Canola/Archive_1#Merger_proposal -- I might be bold and do the merge this month.Jytdog (talk) 12:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
We really need a new or drastically rewritten article Edible rapeseed oil with canola as a redirect for places where this term is used. The article would have an intro explaining how low acid cultivars were developed in various places, then have a series of regional headings explaining terminology, legislation, cultivars and production methods in North America, Europe, China, Australia etc. I don't have anywhere near the level of expertise needed to do this and it will be a lot of work for whoever takes it on. --Ef80 (talk) 21:14, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
I would support a merge to “Rapeseed” --Aspro (talk) 15:58, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Agreed. This article covers three topics, without clear distinction, and has a heavy American-bias (as unfortunately does much of Wikipedia).¬¬¬¬ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Royalcourtier (talk • contribs) 00:56, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
I came to Wikipeda to find out about Rapeseed oil, which is commonly used in cooking in the UK(citation needed). However I struggled to find any information because it is apparently known at "Canola oil" in North America, but the relevant pages do not acknowledge that in much of the rest of the world (and especially the UK) it is usually referred to as "Rapeseed oil". You will find lots of Rapeseed and no Canola in the cooking oil section of a British supermarket(citation needed). 82.69.227.118 (talk) 15:13, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Sure it's 'Rapeseed oil' in the UK. Just picked up Tesco as an example, good selection of Rapeseed oils [1] but no Canola oil at all [2].
Apart from that, please note that at least some standards allow that a product sold as 'Rapeseed oil - low erucic acid' can be made of seeds of species Brassica rapa L. (Brassica campestris L.), Brassica napus L. and Brassica juncea L. STANDARD FOR NAMED VEGETABLE OILS CODEX STAN 210-1999 Adopted in 1999. Revision: 2001, 2003, 2009. Amendment: 2005, 2011, 2013 and 2015. Sivullinen (talk) 15:05, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Definition of "canola"

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

@SpikeToronto: The current version of the article refers both to a legal definition of the term in Canadian law and an "official" definition. The former is not supported by a source at all, the latter is supported by a webpage of the Canola Council of Canada, which in turn quotes an "internationally regulated standard".

"Official" is always relative to an authority[1] and there can be several "official" definitions of a term.

The Canola Council page does not indicate the standards body that published the quoted definition, which leaves several possibilities.

  • There is such a standards body, and the council just didn't properly WP:CITE their source.
  • Or, being a top-level industry association, they considers themselves the relevant authority, and just misleadingly claim to be "internationally regulated".
  • Or, the claim is false. Note that the same webpage claims that canola is "the world's healthiest vegetable oil", which is obviously commercial bullshit.

Paradoctor (talk) 14:21, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

@Paradoctor: Understood. By the way, “commercial puffery” might be a preferable phrase to “commercial bullshit”.  Thanks! — SpikeToronto 03:26, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ wikt:special:permalink/47302216#Adjective, meaning #3

Health effects of canola oil

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The cited health effects are from a study sponsored by the the Canola Council of Canada and the U.S. Canola Association. This represents an obvious conflict of interest. I added this sponsorship to the main article to draw attention to this potentially bias citation. I, unfortunately, do not have the time now or likely soon, to delve more into this and find another, independently sponsored article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.236.43.100 (talk) 21:18, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Healthline as a source

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

This revert was justified because Healthline (and WebMD) are not peer-reviewed expert sources. They are commonly written by bloggers with no medical expertise, often containing spam and quackery. Let's find better quality WP:MEDRS or WP:SCIRS sources for specific information on health or oil constituents that may affect health. Zefr (talk) 03:21, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

As the process of WP:BRD indicates, I am reverting the edit of Flybd5 and adding to the discussion here. Flybd5 is confused about what Healthline is. The source added here to the article is from an American blog called "Healthline", in this case written by a dietitian. It is not, as Flybd5 indicated in an edit summary, "the official publication of Indian Association of Preventive and Social Medicine." The Healthline article cited is not a peer-reviewed or a WP:SCIRS source concerning erucic acid. The sentence where Flybd5 insists the article be used is: "The change in name serves to distinguish it from natural rapeseed oil, which has much higher erucic acid content", a statement in no way supported or even mentioned in the Healthline blog article. Sourcing for such a specific comparison of native rapeseed oil (having a "much higher erucic acid content") to canola oil content of erucic acid requires a rigorous peer-reviewed publication, for which there presently is none; hence, the 'citation needed' tag. Zefr (talk) 16:31, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
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