Talk:Captain David Judson House

The Stratford Historical Society, which owns and gives tours of the property, believes the previously thought 1723 date is incorrect, and very strongly believes this house was built ca. 1750.Old houses (talk) 21:15, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

I’m a lifetime member of the Stratford Historical Society. I’ve spoken to the officers about the date on the website versus in the NRHP nomination form and the other records. They said Abbott Lowell Cummings returned to the Judson House many years after he originally studied it with J. Frederick Kelly and said they should put a “circa” 1750 date for the house, because that means before 1750. 1723 is before 1750. Anyway, every Connecticut historic house museum Cummings visited in his later years became coincidentally built in circa 1750. What a way to end your career. Happy hunting for those tourism dollars Massachusetts!

Cummings was being generous; probably much later, actually. House museums make no money, period. I have nothing to do with any historic house/museum, don't live anywhere near New England, so enough of that stab in the dark. I do have respect for the truth, though, and this is a nice house, and deserves the respect of honesty.[User:Old houses|Old houses]] (talk) 02:41, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

"Cummings was being generous with a circa 1750 date? The Stratford Historical Society strongly believes the house was built ca. 1750?" No, that's not true. It was Cummings who influenced their decision by submitting a report asking them to change it from 1723 to circa 1750. See their newsletter from 1980: [1]. The Executive Board believed it would seem that the presence of an old-fashioned chamfered summer beam (in the east chamber) for the coastal area and of David Judson's position could not be much later than the 1750's." Flat plaster ceilings were the norm by 1715 at the coastal settlements of Stratford, Guilford, etc.. See Hyland House again flat plaster ceiling dendrochronology dates to 1713.

In Orcutt's History of Stratford, he includes a portion of a letter from Mr. John Warner Barber, writing in 1836 when he describes Stratford: [2] "The first settlers appear to have located themselves about one hundred and fifty rods south of the Episcopal Church, the first chimney being erected near that spot; it was taken down about two years since. The first burying ground was near that spot. Mr. William Judson, one of the first settlers, came into Stratford in 1638. He lived at the southwest corner of Meetinghouse hill or green, in a house constructed of stone. Mr. Abner Judson, his descendant, lives on the same spot, in a house which has stood one hundred and thirteen years, and is still in good repair." 1836-113 years = 1723.Tomticker5 (talk) 11:54, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

No images on-line of the interior of this house. But, if that chamfered beam is the only first period feature in the house, then I'd suspect a re-used beam, significant in its own right, but not an indication of date of construction. If there are any other first period features in that room and the room below it, then the 1723 would be justified. Not clear why you mention "flat" plaster ceilings and also a chamfered beam, indicating that room, at least, does not have a plaster ceiling. Anyway, exterior form and style indicate a 1750-1800 date of construction. The re-used beams in the Feake House have led to temptation, which is unfortunate.Old houses (talk) 14:39, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

And the Hyland House has First Period features; the lack of an exposed summer is very unusual, since we know it persisted for decades, throughout the Northeast. Even very up-to-date houses, like Parson Barnard House, ca. 1715, had exposed beams.Old houses (talk) 14:55, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

CT Post article with photos: [3]

Well that fireplace looks First Period; I wonder if the house was built around an old chimney stack? Georgian paneling is pretty special; 1750+ on that. I'd agree with Cummings on the ca. 1750, though, given the large size of those two fireplaces. Ideal candidate for dendrochronology.Old houses (talk) 21:53, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Have you seen Massachusetts Hall that was built in the 1720s?

Is there some similarity? That chimney stack does look 1723 to me; 1750 fireplaces are usually much smaller. All of these places in New England dating much later than previously thought in no way changes history. I just read about Parson Barnard House; incredible house, remarkably well preserved. The town historical society had always thought it dated to 1666 and occupied by Anne Bradstreet. Cummings came along in the 60s and dated it to 1715, and though it hasn't been dated scientifically, he was clearly correct that the house was not 17th century. The historical society, smartly, held onto the house, even though no famous person lived there and was not of coveted 17th century vintage. Meanwhile, just a few miles away, the Benjamin Abbot House, which has similar features, was dated scientifically to 1711, not the long thought 1685, and the owners, upset, immediately put the house up for sale. The obsession with age is just so superficial. I do think the Judson House should get tested; put a call out to the membership, a couple thousand bucks is an easy ask for a specific project.Old houses (talk) 04:29, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Cummings advised the Stratford Historical Society on several occasions when they made renovations to the house in the 1950s & 1960s but it wasn't until 1980 that he suggested changing the long held 1723 date (via documentation) to the circa 1750 date. I have heard directly from a board member that they will never allow dendrochronology of the Judson House but who knows what changes will come in the future as the leadership changes/dies off.Tomticker5 (talk) 14:41, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Cummings dated houses based on style, only using documents to try to pinpoint a date. The only reason not to do dendrochronology is the expense; several thousand dollars is a lot of money for most small non-profits. But if history or education is part of their mission, it would be irresponsible to disallow testing.Old houses (talk) 21:09, 26 April 2021 (UTC)