Talk:Caramut

Requested move 18 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved Caramut and Purnim, no consensus on Hawkesdale. (closed by non-admin page mover) Tol (talk | contribs) @ 13:48, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

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• Caramut, Victoria → Caramut
• Hawkesdale, Victoria → Hawkesdale
• Purnim, Victoria → Purnim

– I boldly moved these a few months ago which was reverted by The Drover's Wife, redone by Cjhard and reverted again by The Drover's Wife. The ", Victoria" is unnecessary disambiguation. WP:NCAUST neither specifically endorses, nor disallows, the use of undisambiguated place names in Australia, stating "the name of a city or town may be used alone if the place is the primary or only topic for that name". With these three that is the case, they are not ambiguous with any other places or topics on Wikipedia. Including unnecessary disambiguation goes against WP:CONCISE and in my opinion WP:COMMONNAME since sources cited in these articles just use the town names. A7V2 (talk) 04:22, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

• Support 1st and 3rd, weak oppose 2nd. There is a place in Cumbria with a population of 336 in 1870-1872 though the settlement is now "Hawksdale" on OS maps. I'd suggest making "Hawkesdale" a DAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:23, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
• Support - all three, the policies cited are pretty ambiguous here. Cjhard (talk) 11:58, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose 2nd Australian place population 322, Hawkesdale Cumbria much the same. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:53, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
• Support. Caramut and Purnim, oppose Hawkesdale. It is very longstanding convention that either disambiguated or not is fine for Australian places, and these bulk moves away from an explicitly acceptable option - without even checking if there are in fact any other articles at or close to that name - are unhelpful. The Drover's Wife (talk) 22:24, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

  What do you mean by "without even checking if there are in fact any other articles at or close to that name"? I did check. What article did I miss? The Hawksdale in Cumbria (Hawksdale linked on List of places in Cumbria) doesn't have an article. I also don't think we require disambiguation for a place that is spelled differently, especially given it doesn't have an article. A7V2 (talk) 22:55, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

  Please refrain from citing 'longstanding convention' without backing it up with any evidence such as an on-wiki discussion. Cjhard (talk) 01:15, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

  We disambiguate for minor variations in spelling literally all the time in basically every context, since confusion is fairly likely. As for the rest: the current wording is clear enough, but if you'd like more historical context for that wording, read the history of WP:NCAUST. It isn't my job to spoonfeed you in painful detail just because you're spoiling for random fights again in questionable-at-best faith. The Drover's Wife (talk) 01:20, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

  Absent any kind of evidence it's safe for other editors to safely assume that this "long-standing convention" that contradicts every single policy/guideline that has anything to say on the topic doesn't exist. Cjhard (talk) 23:22, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

  Apart from WP:NCAUST, being the convention/guideline I'm talking about and the convention being discussed here. Apparently your determination to randomly lash out at whoever you've decided to try to bully today has hampered either your ability to follow the meaning of standard English words such as "may", or to follow that the nominator explained the meaning of WP:NCAUST in essentially the same terms. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:12, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

  The name of the township was "Hawkesdale" not "Hawksdale" though the modern settlement is "Hawksdale". "Hawkesdale" has been used since at least 1415 for the settlement. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:19, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

• Comment (putting as a comment due to WP:THREAD issues above making it unclear who is replying to whom) - I disagree that there is need for a disambiguation page Hawkesdale since the alternate topic (the town in Cumbria) doesn't have an article, and is not discussed anywhere. I also disagree that the town in Cumbria could be the primary topic due to the spelling variation for the modern town, which could be handled with a hatnote if/when an article is written about the town in Cumbria. However, I would strongly, strongly object to keeping the status-quo for Hawkesdale being a redirect to Hawkesdale, Victoria as the argument for not moving is that Hawkesdale is ambiguous, so then it must be a disambiguation page. A7V2 (talk) 01:01, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
• Support all three. Clearly the location in Cumbria is spelled differently, and I don't regard an old 1870-1872 variant as sufficient to cause confusion, it's a WP:SMALLDETAILS case. A hatnote to Hawksdale can be added if such an article is ever created.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:15, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.