Talk:Carousel

Speculation / Original Research

Regarding the following paragraph:-

Within a given country, carousels are generally all built to rotate in the same direction, with the choice derived perhaps from the rules of the road of that country. In the U.S., traffic as seen from the sidewalk appears to travel from left to right; hence American carousels rotate counter-clockwise so that the view from outside is the same as that from the sidewalk. In Britain, it's the reverse in both cases. Another reason for the choice may be that the British felt it necessary to enable the rider to mount the wooden steeds in the "proper" fashion, inserting the left foot in the stirrup and swinging the right leg over and up onto the animal. The Americans, on the other hand, were more concerned with people being able to "grab the brass ring" while spinning round and round. Since most people are right-handed, the machine would have to travel in a counter-clockwise direction so that the right hand would be free to reach for the ring.

This sounds like original speculation. It is acceptable to include speculation from third-party sources, published independently if (a) They are a reputable authority on the subject (publication in a reputable source would back this up)and/or (b) Such speculation is demonstrably widespread or commonplace.

Unfortunately, this does not appear to be the case here. If I am mistaken, this needs to be demonstrated more clearly. Fourohfour 12:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm new here, but the paragraph in question is neither original speculation nor original research. I don't have the book on me at the moment, but I believe the above passage has been plagiarized from Nina Fraley's introduction to Tobin Fraley's The Great American Carousel (San Francisco: Chronicle Books, 1994). In any case, Fraley, a carousel-craftsmen himself, and his bibliography should be included under "References." I've read Nina Fraley's introduction, and while she makes some intriguing claims about the carousel's international differences, it should be noted that the tone is nostalgic, bordering on the literary. --Pyropianist 08:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It is indeed true that most British carousels rotate clockwise and most American ones anti-clockwise. It cannot be from the way we drive cars, because the carousel predates the American standard of driving automobiles on the right-hand side of the road. Perhaps the ring-gun (with the iron or brass ring to be grabbed) was an American invention and led to the anti-clockwise rotation.

- The Carousel at Centre Island, in Toronto Canada, runs clockwise. Canadians drive on the same side of the road as Americans, so I don't think it would have anyting to do with which side of the road people drive on.

The ring gun itself is dangerous, because one can smash one's hand on it when reaching for the ring. (Personal experience on the Looff carousel at the former Riverside Park, East Providence, RI, circa 1985.) Few if any ring guns remain in operation.

Snezzy 22:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It cannot be from the way we drive cars, because the carousel predates the American standard of driving automobiles on the right-hand side of the road.

The American and Continental standard of driving on the right side of the road predates the automobile. There is an early silent film of a busy city intersection, in which the horses and buggies are driven on the right side of the road. Consequently I do not think the passage believed to be plagarized from Fraley's book can be dismissed as blatantly incorrect.

I'm happy that the anomalies are covered by the word 'generally' in the articles text. There are, for instance, two carousels on the pier in Great Yarmouth in the UK and one goes one way and one the other! There are also other problems with the theory in that prior to the Great War many more countries, including the entire Austro-Hungarian Empire drove on the left! DickyP (talk) 14:09, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Indeed the habit is probably much, much older and maps to the old English tradition that says you never walk round a church 'widdershins' (anti-clockwise). DickyP (talk) 15:47, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm french and we say as a common joke that the English rode horses on the left side to be able to fight more easily, since they used their swords with the right hand, so even if the purpose is totally wrong, the fact that we have that joke tends to indicate that these conventions predate automobiles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.67.87.211 (talk) 07:22, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Tallest Carousel

The article states both Himmelskibet (at Tivoli in Copenhagen) and the Columbia carousels (in Gurnee, Illinois and in Santa Clara, California) to be tallest in the world. (The claims come from the carousels' respective websites.) It appears that Himmelskibet is 80 meters, while the Columbias are 100 ft, or about 30 meters, and thus shorter. Someone with more extensive or precise information might wish to correct the article.

Snezzy 22:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The Tivoli carousel is not a traditional style carousel but it does seem qualify under the Webster's dictionary definition. (see pictures: [1]). The two Columbia carousels are the traditional style of carousel. I changed the caption regarding the Columbia carousel to refer to it as the tallest traditional carousel. --Cab88 16:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Merry-go-round vs Carousel

In my experience, a merry-go-round is quite different from a carousel. A carousel has seats (usually horses) and is larger and powered mechanically or electronically by a separate operator. A merry-go-round is much smaller and, instead of seats, just has bars to hold onto. A merry-go-round is "powered" by a kid holding onto a bar and running around in a circle. These are very different. -Branddobbe

Different usage in different countries, I guess. Certainly those things in the playgrounds weren't called Merry-go-rounds in New Zealand, and the ride-on things with horses to sit on certainly weren't normally called Carousels either. Karora 21:36, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

My experience is that in much of the US, merry-go-round and carousel are used interchangably. Merry-go-round is probably more common in the US, with the ones that are set up at carnivals or at the midways of fairs more often referred to as merry-go-rounds, while permanent ones are more likely to be called carousels. I've only heard the kid-powered ones referred to as merry-go-rounds. The older kids can really get those going at a pretty high speed.--RLent (talk) 16:15, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

11:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC) It is quite different and I find it annoying that there isn't any information about the controversial removal of merry-go-rounds from many playgrounds.24.126.103.28 12:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

On subject of country differences: the 'notable carousels'section list is 99% carousels in the US, and the article in general is very US centric. would be better if it were much more neutral, citing examples from across the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.58.67.27 (talk) 22:56, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Here in Australia we have a merry-go-round which had been converted from horse and cart then to rail and now on a prime mover which travels from show to show all round Australia this merry-go-round would have to be over 100 years old it is owned by the Laurie's family they live in Dubbo New South Wales Australia Frank Laurie... Tobybaker49 (talk) 02:38, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

External Links

Hi, just wondering why additional pictures and information were removed from external links? Is this of no value? Pictures and information about the carousel at Glen Echo Trolley Park, outside of Washington, D.C. on EastGhost Patriotick 02:44, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Oldest Existing Carousel

The Trivia section states that the oldest existing carousel (circa 1907) is now in Japan, however, there is a Dentzell Carousel circa 1905 still running at Centreville Amusement Park on the Toronto Islands, in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. http://www.centreisland.ca/attractions.html

Actually Montreal has a carousel that was built in 1885. It has now been restored and it currently runs at La Ronde. Check this out : http://www.laronde.com/larondeen/galopant/index.html

The steam museum at Bressingham, Norfolk, England has a carousel made in 1900 and decorated around the top with "Made by Norfolk craftsmen when Victoria was Queen". See http://www.bressingham.co.uk/content/trains.aspx?id=33 George Buchanan

The Bressingham's carousel is known as the 'Gallopers'. It was built by Savages of Kings Lynn in 1897. Not only do we have the Bressingham Savage Gallopers in Norfolk but also the Savage Gallopers at Thursford 1893 and Hunstanton 1888: so that's three older ones.DickyP (talk) 15:38, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Pictures

I won't venture to make any changes myself, but I think some of my detail photos of carousels are better than most used here, and perhaps one or more of them belong in the article. See especially Commons:Category:Golden Gate Park Carousel; also (not quite the same quality because of what camera I had available) Commons:Category:Woodland Park Zoo Carousel. - Jmabel | Talk 19:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Roundabouts and waltzers

Other related words are roundabout and waltzer. Everybody got to be somewhere! (talk) 21:25, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

As a Brit, I have never heard roundabout used for a carousel. Suggest removing its reference in the intro paragraph. Waltzer is a different ride. Jonnyboy5 (talk) 12:17, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Be bold make the change. The Oxford English Dictionary indicates the term commonly refers to a piece of playground equipment so it probably doesn't belong here.—JlACEer (talk) 13:42, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Speed

The article makes no mention of this. What's typical? Are there legal constraints in any countries and states? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.54.121 (talk) 22:19, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Why isn't the inventor mentioned here?

I notice that Herschel is mentioned, but it does not say he is the inventor. Why is this??? Everyone knows Herschel invented the carousel in North Tonawanda, New York.184.155.120.157 (talk) 09:35, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Because Allan Herschell wasn't born until 1856 and a number of Carousels predate this by several decades! DickyP (talk) 16:06, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Looped circus music?

I wonder about that. The classic carousels that I remember have something like an orchestrion, band organ or even a full blown calliope as accompaniment. Kortoso (talk)

Notable Carousels

How is this determined? What makes a specific Carousel "Notable"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.231.181.34 (talk) 02:55, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Confusing text in Early History

The word carousel originated from the Italian garosello and Spanish carosella ("little battle", used by crusaders to describe a combat preparation exercise and game played by Turkish and Arabian horsemen in the 12th century).[3] This early device was essentially a cavalry training mechanism; it prepared and strengthened the riders for actual combat as they wielded their swords at the mock enemies.

In this text (from the end of the first paragraph under Early History), the first sentence describes a "preparation exercies and game." The second sentence begins with "[t]his device." To what device does this refer? --Ggurman (talk) 07:03, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Carousel

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Carousel's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "nhlsum":

• From Playland (New York): "Playland Amusement Park". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. 2007-09-18.
• From Santa Cruz Looff Carousel and Roller Coaster: "Santa Cruz Looff Carousel & Roller Coaster On The Beach Boardwalk". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. Retrieved 2007-11-18.
• From Flying Horse Carousel: "Flying Horse Carousel (Westerly)". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. Retrieved 2008-03-03.
• From Crescent Park Looff Carousel: "Crescent Park Looff Carousel". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. Retrieved 2008-05-04.
• From Santa Monica Looff Hippodrome: "Santa Monica Looff Hippodrome". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. Retrieved 2007-11-18.
• From Spencer Park Dentzel Carousel: "Spencer Park Dentzel Carousel". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. Retrieved 2008-03-27.
• From Elitch Gardens Carousel: "Philadelphia Toboggan Company Carousel #6". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. Retrieved 2007-10-14.
• From Highland Park Dentzel Carousel and Shelter Building: "Highland Park Dentzel Carousel". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. Retrieved 2007-10-22.
• From Kennywood: "Kennywood Park". National Historic Landmark summary listing. National Park Service. Retrieved July 2, 2008.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 22:05, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Steam Carousel

How does a steam Carousel operate Tobybaker49 (talk) 09:37, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

The same as any other carousel. Instead of standard electric or gas-powered engine, it uses a steam engine. —JlACEer (talk) 17:51, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Direction

The Direction section is listed in the History section. But that means there is no mention of newer Carousels. Jidanni (talk) 04:28, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

That may be where it belongs as clockwise carousels are likely a thing of the past. Is any company currently building new clockwise carousels?—JlACEer (talk) 02:43, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Geelong Carousel - clarification request - original manufacturer

I recently published a new article Geelong Carousel. It has been difficult finding sources that provide any detailed description of the carousel, or its restoration leading up to the re-opening in a new pavilion in 2000. One of the issues I found particularly confusing was the name of the original manufacturer, and hope that someone may be able to assist. The wheels on the horse-drawn steam engine carriage (said to be the original engine for this carousel) are embossed with the name Herschell Spillman.[2] However, other sources, including signboards placed near the carousel say the original maker was Armitage-Herschell. [3]. Adding to the confusion, the "nameplate" painting done during the restoration says Herschell-Spillman. The article Allan Herschell Company, if it is to be believed, indicates that the Herschell Spillman company wasn't created until after the claimed date of manufacture of this carousel in 1892. Can anyone provide any insights or new sources that would help resolve this ?_Marshelec (talk) 23:37, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

You might try contacting the Herschell Carousel Museum in New York. According to their website, the Herschell-Spillman Company was started in 1901. If the carousel in question has a Herschell-Spillman nameplate then it may not be as old as some of those sources claim.—JlACEer (talk) 13:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)