Talk:Caso Cerrado

Proper capitalization

The proper capitalization for this title is "Caso cerrado." Spanish, French and Italian languages only capitalize the first word and any proper nouns. Common-name keywords, such as in this case 'cerrado' are not capitalized. Portuguese language follows the English language rules, and German capitalizes common names. T.W. (talk) 22:12, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

No. By policy of the English Wikipedia, all television shows (whether they're English or not) are capitalized. Further moving of the page back to its improper capitalization under the English Wikipedia's standards will be reported as vandalism. MegastarLV (talk) 02:44, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Please link me to Wikipedia's policies on the subject so I can express my outrage at such absurdity. Regardless of this "being the English Wikipedia," the titles of the shows are in Spanish. If the article were 'Case Closed', translated into English, it'd be a different story. All foreign Wikipedias (in Spanish, French, Italian, Romanian, etc.) capitalize English titles accordingly to English-language rules, they DO NOT adapt them to those in their languages. This is an outrage; it is disrespectful to the original languages, and it is grammatically wrong in all aspects. Also, care to explain why the vast majority of Spanish-language television shows use Spanish-language capitalization, even though 'Wikipedia policies' suggest otherwise?

From Wikipedia:Manual of Style (capital letters) on Composition titles:

Capitalize the first letter in the first and last words in the titles of English compositions (books and other print works, songs and other audio works, films and other visual media works, paintings and other artworks etc.). The first letter in the other words is also capitalized, except for short coordinating conjunctions (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so), prepositions (of, to, in, for, on, with), and articles (a, an, the), as well as the word to in infinitives.

These guidelines propose standard English-language capitalization for English-language composition titles only. Nowhere does it state that foreign-language titles are to be adapted to fit English-language standards. Unless you can provide me with proper support from the guidelines, I'll once again have the article removed to its proper Spanish-language capitalization and you'll be welcome to protest vandalism. I'll then state my case one more time.T.W. (talk) 04:13, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm still waiting. T.W. (talk) 16:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Pardon me as I had to log off for the night. As I said, this is not the Spanish Wikipedia. To make a major edit like the one you did, I shouldn't have to link you to a certain guideline because you should know better. Apparently the way it looks, you're the only one who's changing the title to its Spanish format, as nearly all television shows here (of all languages) are capitalized as they should. All media on the Spanish Wikipedia has only the first letter in the first word capitalized, so it would be considered as their standards. The guideline you stated does not match the dilemma, because "adapting to fit English-language standards" is clearly a different subject, as I have said before: We are using the English Wikipedia, not the Spanish (or any other language) Wikipedia. I know you're unhappy about it, but this is the Wikipedia we're using. MegastarLV (talk) 16:41, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Wrong. I'm a common contributor to the Spanish Wikipedia, and if an English-language title is not capitalized according to English-language standards, a user is granted the right to make the correction, with that argument as a reason, the same goes for the other Wikipedias. Regardless of this being the English Wikipedia or not, the titles are still in foreign languages, and foreign languages have capitalization rules that must be respected Notice how the English-language IMDb site does not take liberties when presenting titles in the Finnish-language [1], because foreign capitalization rules are respected regardless of the language of the works. Because I find your argument extremely poor and lacking support, as well as information, I'm changing the article yet again. Please, inform Wikipedia authorities of 'vandalism' and I'll present my case. Thank you. T.W. (talk) 17:53, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Think I'm wrong? Why not look at ALL articles of Spanish-language television shows on Wikipedia. I can assure you nearly all of them are capitalized as they should. If you know you're the only one who finds this wrong, now I know how embarrassed you feel. MegastarLV (talk) 19:14, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Your arguments are very weak. The current state of articles is not an argument you can make here, specially when earlier you "cited" Wikipedia policies backing you up, which as of now, are nowhere to be seen. I don't feel embarrassed at all. Many editors are clueless about the reality that English-language capitalization does not apply to most major foreign languages (except Portuguese), and thus write the articles abiding to that ignorance. I've made several changes of this nature to many articles, and the final decision was always that foreign-language capitalization was to be used. For TV shows, films, songs, etc. The only exception is proper artist or band names, such as "Los Fabulosos Cadillacs," in which all keywords are capitalizes, but only because they're considered proper nouns. T.W. (talk) 20:28, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Though the terms "Caso Cerrado" have been improperly adopted into the English language for a television show in which no English version exists, the Spanish title should still be part of the article. It is, after all, a Spanish language show. T.W. (talk) 03:24, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Requsted Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 20:51, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

---

Caso cerrado → Caso Cerrado – Three sources are cited in this article; sll three are in English; all three call the subject Caso Cerrado (in his misguided quest for linguistic "correctness," TW has gotten their titles wrong; in this cut-and-paste age of searches, that would be a serious flaw in a print Wikipedia).

• Strongly support; see WP:USEENGLISH Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:05, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
• Strongly oppose; Caso cerrado con la Dra. Ana María Polo, WP:USEENGLISH does not apply here, as the policy suggests that English terms are to be used when official and accepted English-language terms exist. That is not the case here and that article has nothing to do with capitalization. Spanish_orthography#Capitalization T.W. (talk) 00:43, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
• Strongly support (because it shouldn't have been moved to Caso cerrado in the first place); Seriously, would a user on the English Wikipedia ever move the title of a Spanish-language television show to its Spanish Wikipedia format? This should not have been done in the first place. Taran Wanderer's source of IMDB is NOT a way to verify this. As seen in the previous revisions, Taran Wanderer has been subjected to edit warring over the title, as the other users involved were moving it back to its English standards (once again, this is the English Wikipedia, NOT the Spanish Wikipedia) & Taran Wanderer wilfully refused to stop edit warring, which is against all Wikipedia standards. This page needs to be moved back to Caso Cerrado, its proper English-language format. MegastarLV (talk) 03:07, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Several problems with your claims: One, you're as guilty of edit warring as I am, and the article was Caso cerrado for a long time without protest. Second, Caso cerrado (as well as any non-English title) is NOT English-language, therefore it does not abide to English-language ruling. Is that so hard to comprehend, or do you not understand English? Third, like I've stated, IMDB.com is 100% reliable because it abides to language-set rules for capitalization. T.W. (talk) 03:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

• Support LA Times says "Caso Cerrado". So does Variety, the entertainment trade paper. Kauffner (talk) 04:05, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Depending on the author: Variety.com says "Caso cerrado" here [2] ("Bozzo's new show will go toe-to-toe Stateside with Telemundo's "Caso cerrado" (Case Closed)"). T.W. (talk) 04:42, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

• Support. The majority of English sources use "Caso Cerrado", so that is what we, Wikipedia, should use (WP:COMMONNAME). What capitalisation people writing in Spanish use is basically irrelevant, as the article (and title) is not in Spanish. Jenks24 (talk) 17:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

The title is in Spanish. "Caso" and "cerrado" do not appear in the English dictionary. WP:COMMONNAME applies only when there's no specific correct form, in this case there is: Caso cerrado, first letter and proper nouns capitalized only; "cerrado" is not a proper noun. "Caso cerrado" as a whole is not a 'common name' either. "Lawn chair" is a common name, "Caso cerrado" is a title, therefore WP:COMMONNAME is not applicable.T.W. (talk) 17:13, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

• Diction Clarification: Instead of "orthodox", T.W. almost certainly means "conventions". --Cybercobra (talk) 07:57, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Proposition

I'll drop my case the moment titles in Grimm's Fairy Tales are changed to fit English language orthodox (currently they follow German language orthodox), though MegastarLV claims that adjectives in English are not capitalized and thus the title listing follows English grammar; this is complete and utter nonsense. Adjectives in titles in English are ALWAYS capitalized. If German orthodox is respected, Spanish, French and Italian should be respected as well. If Obama, or whoever, has stated that English orthodox will discontinue capitalization of adjectives, and the article must still follow English orthodox, "cerrado" should STILL not be capitalized, as it is an adjective. T.W. (talk) 18:50, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but constantly arguing back with those who support the move doesn't work like that. It only shows that you are just as obsessed with this as I am. Drop the case now, T.W. No one else brings up cases like the one you did. You just wasted a lot of time warring over the grammar & arguing with the people who support the English-language grammar on Spanish titles. Trust me, you're only making a fool of yourself the more you continue. MegastarLV (talk) 19:10, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Exactly why no one has brought up a case like this is why Wikipedia doesn't have policies on the specific subject. All the Wikipedia policy articles brought up have been irrelevant to the case. I'm not dropping the case. As of now, you're being inconsistent. By refusing to alter Grimm's Fairy Tales you're claiming that German orthodox is to be respected on German-language titles, but Spanish orthodox is to be violated on Spanish-language titles. That's BabySitter. So long as your best argument against me is that I'm making a fool of myself, the better my case is. I'm 100% confident that I'm correct, while everyone here is following irrelevant Wikipedia policies that do not apply, so why would I drop my case? T.W. (talk) 19:19, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not saying that it's an argument, T.W. You can keep arguing all you want. The only thing that will do is just show everyone that you enjoy arguing over such a silly case instead of cooperating with those who'd rather drop it & support the move to this format. MegastarLV (talk) 19:30, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

You want me to drop it because you have no proper defense. I discarded all the 'evidence' presented against me and my claim (see above). Silly argument? Hundreds of articles on English Wikipedia relating to foreign language titles are incorrectly formatted: half of them follow English orthodox, half of them follow their respective language's orthodox. Surely ONE side must be right, but there is no official policy in the matter. Silly case? I think not. It has to be one or the other, right now, it's NEITHER. USEENGLISH and COMMONNAME do not apply here at all (see above). T.W. (talk) 19:35, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Golden Globe Award for Best Foreign Language Film also lists all foreign titles respectfully applying their languages orthodox. Why isn't this changed? (That's a rhetorical question) T.W. (talk) 19:39, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't know which words are to be capitalized in those titles since I don't know those foreign languages. And no, I didn't say I had or didn't have any defense. You should drop the case because constantly arguing just isn't worth it & that's all you're doing. MegastarLV (talk) 19:53, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

You don't need to know what is to be capitalized in those foreign languages if you're to follow English orthodox on all of them. I told you time and time again which words are capitalized and which words are NOT capitalized in Spanish titles, little did it do. I'm not dropping the case because I'm constantly presenting evidence to back me up, while all you do is try to turn this personal instead of finding a piece of official evidence to support your claim. No, I'm not dropping the case, and yes, I do want it to go on because I'm confident about it. T.W. (talk) 19:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

You do notice that despite your evidence, you're the only one (as of this moment) who opposes the move to Caso Cerrado, right? We're all seeing that you just don't want this to stop, & that just doesn't look normal to us. There will eventually be more people who either support or oppose it, so BE PATIENT & wait for others to give their opinion on this. Keeping up with the argument & constantly arguing with the supporters will only cause more people to see the case just as worthless. MegastarLV (talk) 20:19, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, several people have approved, but they did so by presenting irrelevant policies. The problem is that Wikipedia doesn't have policies supporting either side specifically, so I suggest leaving this dispute on hold and focus on the bigger picture: General policies for foreign-language titles, which right now appear non-existent. T.W. (talk) 20:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

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Custodia

I speak English in Spanish but I understand English more I am a divorced mother of two children I have a disability since I was a baby had four surgeries on the right lower brain the other three don't know why but total is 7 surgeries I had a cyst removed in the brain. In June 6th 2011 I met luciel González in high school we got together. We started having on-and-off relationships in 2013 I was pregnant at the time on April 13th 2013 got married with mr. Gonzalez hours for 5 months at the time with my daughter Samantha Elena González. At 8 months I moved in with her father mr. Gonzalez and his family. I have a mental condition but I am able to take care of my children. I take medication at the time whenever my daughter was a month and a half I was diagnosed with bipolar anxiety PTSD depression insomnia. In 2014 became pregnant with my son Ezequiel José González. May 31st 2015 at the time at night I was bathing Samantha and the tub she was a year old at the time whenever she was done getting bathed she wanted her grandma to take her out of the tub I told mrs. Fernandez (Caridad Fernandez) the Samantha I wanted her to take her out of the tub and dress her at that time mrs. Fernandez was watching her show. So I walked back to the bathroom to take my daughter out of the tub when I was picking her up she was getting fussy and so I took her to mrs. Fernandez room to get Samantha dress for bedtime. Samantha was whining and mrs. Fernandez came in and said that I was treating Samantha like a dog to leave her room. Yes I responded back not a good way and it went into an argument I went to the room mine and mr. Fernandez room at the time my son was 5 months sleeping with us in his crib. Mr. Fernandez came behind me and I turned around and he grabbed me by my neck and pended me to the bed his mother mrs. Fernandez walked in with Samantha and her arms. At the time I didn't have my glasses on all I saw was mrs. Fernandez hand coming towards me so I blocked it with my foot and she came back at me saying that I hit her with my foot and I hit Samantha. When I was with their father every 4 to 6 months me and mrs. Fernandez would always get into a fight over my children. I called the police after Mrs Fernandez and me stopped the fighting it was physical fight I went to the bathroom and I had a big scratch on my face I called my mother to come and pick me up and the children she told me to call my brother the oldest I called him he told me to call the police I called the police department told him what was going on what happened an officer came to talk to me to see what was going on and I told him my story at the time my daughter was outside when the officers were talking to us. They talked to mrs. Fernandez and mr. Gonzalez. The officer told me to go to his car put my hands behind my back can you put handcuffs on me in front of my daughter all I could here is my daughter crying. I got admitted to the mental hospital at Broward general hospital fort Lauderdale. On September 14th 2015 at 10:30 p.m. got a phone call I thought it was Samantha wanting to talk to me it was mr. Gonzalez. Mr. Gonzalez told me on the phone that Samantha was getting airlifted he couldn't explain really well what happened but it was bad. Samantha was in the hospital for 215 days mr. Gonzalez and mrs. Fernandez can't explain it to you of what happened but the story that mrs. Fernandez told me is that she was heating up the food in a pressure cooker and mr. Gonzalez wanted to take the children to the park so after they came home from the park mrs. Fernandez was bathing Ezequiel in the sink and heating his food up in the microwave. After she bathed Ezequiel she told mr. Gonzalez to dress Ezequiel for bedtime. Mrs. Fernandez was going to bathe Samantha and Samantha said no that she didn't want a bath while mrs. Fernandez was bathing Samantha in the sink she turned on the pressure cooker to warm up Samantha food after she took a bath she was going to feed her so she won't fall asleep after her bath. the pressure cooker started splatter and chicken broth on the side of the pot mrs. Fernandez turned it off and took off the lid it was still overflowing and Mrs Fernandez moved it out of Samantha's harm so she won't get burnt when mrs. Fernandez was moving the part to the other side of the sink it slipped out of mrs. Fernandez hands on top of Samantha while she was in the sink with water. The only part that I know Samantha 60% and second and third degree burns on her body and what I understood she had an infection in her blood and bacteria a couple of months after that she had to have surgery through amputated her left leg her toes her fingers half of her fingers on her right hand because she lost circulation in her blood. Her kidneys stop working for a couple days. Samantha went through a lot of surgeries and therapy at Jackson memorial hospital Miami Florida. She was in rehab before she turned three she came home. At the time I Haddad visitation with Ezequiel supervisor with me to have my son it was my mother that was my supervisor court-ordered me to Ezequiel Tuesday's 10:30 pick up Wednesdays 5 p.m. drop off only if my mother was my supervisor to pick my son up. I only could see Samantha in the hospital or at her father's house couldn't have her with me without her father or his mother being around. Mr. Gonzalez has been giving me hard time seen the children I don't have transportation or I'll can't drive I do not have a license. Mr. Gonzalez told me and my fiance Steven Boyles they've had to relocate because of Samantha medical condition he told both of us mr. Gonzalez told us that once a month he would bring the children to visit me. Once a month I would have the children for visitation we all agreed on Samantha and Ezequiel able to go up to Kentucky for Samantha medical condition. My fiance's family wanted to meet the children his mother and brother came to me Samantha and Ezequiel. My fiance's mother asked his mother if they will pay for my ticket to go see the children and mrs. Fernandez said no. Every time stuff happens with me and mr. Gonzalez or I see the children Samantha cries and doesn't want to be away from me and I had to cry with her and I don't like crying with her cuz it hurts me a lot to see her suffer mr. Gonzalez is not just hurting me he's hurting both of the children.

Mr. Gonzalez was telling me that he has sole custody I didn't receive any documents of him having sole custody all I know is this joint custody. I want my kids back home I'm doing a lot better I'm stabled the right medication for my mental condition I have a home for my children bigger than their house in fort Lauderdale. I'm able to take care of Samantha I've been watching videos how to take care of her condition and I have a friend that used to work as a nurse and she's training me how to take care of Samantha cuz of her condition. Your honor I really want my kids to be with me and never be around mr. Gonzalez's mother mrs. Fernandez or mr. Gonzalez.

Please your honor I am going through a lot and I just want my kids home with me save my fiance Steven Boyles he is a father of one he is a good person doesn't drink do anything bad. My kids fell in love with him whenever he met them in person my daughter and my son would talk to him sometimes whenever we video chat on Mondays my daughter and son are scared to talk to my fiance around their dad cuz his mom misses Fernandez terros Samantha stuff and Samantha gets upset and won't speak to us after mrs. Fernández said something to her for example one day she told Samantha to say that she was going to pull my ear because I stop studying the Bible as a Jehovah's witness. Samantha got really quiet and upset I tried to talk to her she wouldn't talk to me for like an hour and then hung up the phone. Your honor please help me I got pictures of my children from since they were babies until now. Gtiana863 (talk) 03:52, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

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