Talk:Casu martzu/Archive 1

Comment 1

Is Casu modde the name of this cheese in Sardinian language? Rmhermen 18:23, Dec 11, 2003 (UTC)

I saw someone had made a duplicate article at Casu Marzu. I've made that a redirect. At first, though, I thought it was somebody doing vandalistic hoaxing, so I tried to look up casu marzu to see what I could find. And... can we get a citation for this? I've seen it explicitly described as an urban legend in one website, but that source doesn't strike me as any more reputable than the ones that are saying this is a real food product, and... I'll be honest, I'd rather not think about this long enough to research it and do the fact-check on it. The Literate Engineer 08:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

It appears that this is actually really produced, albeit without legal authority.

Virtually all the English-language references I could find that didn't look too dodgy trace back to one Wall Street Journal article. I haven't been able to find the full text of the article at any reliable site, though I found parts of it at an Oregon State website and have put a link to that in the article. This "apocalypsefiction.com" page appears to have the whole article and says it is by "By YAROSLAV TROFIMOV Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL". Can anyone confirm this article? (Yaroslav Trofimov does seem to be a real reporter...) I also note that looking at Italian-language pages does appear to confirm the existence of this amazing (?) product, but I still feel like I could be the victim of a hoax. Bunchofgrapes 04:41, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Why is this a black market item? Is it dangerous to consume in some way? Sortan 16:32, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, the Wall Street Journal article says just "Italian health authorities consider cheese with worms damaged goods. Selling it or serving it can be punished with a hefty fine." By way of danger, it only says "The result is a viscous, pungent goo that burns the tongue and can affect other parts of the body. One neophyte experienced a strange crawling sensation on his skin that lasted for days." Neither quote strikes me as particularly authoritative. Bunchofgrapes 16:50, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Comment 2

Here's something new - from a scientific journal! This is from an article in The Journal of Parasitology, vol. 89, no. 6, December 2003. "Flavor buds and other delights", by Robin M. Overstreet. Here is a link to Google's HTML cache of the article, which was the only full-text I could find of it that I didn't have to pay $30 for (link not working). It has a brief but rewarding section on Casu Marzu, from which I quote:

Simonetta Mattiucci (pers. comm.) told me about "cheese with worms" from Sardinia, Italy, but she pointed out that the "worms" were not parasitic worms but fly larvae with the potential to cause internal miasis in those who ate it. Consequently, the dish should be avoided.

I believe "miasis" is a variant spelling of myiasis.

The article also says that there is another casu marzu, from the Piedmont region, "produced with a goat milk-based soft cheese... permeated with pale pink, small, fat, barrel-shaped maggots crawling throughout the cheese. I'll try to incorporate some of this into the article when I have a chance. Bunchofgrapes 21:38, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I feel I must note that Overstreet's paper doesn't cite Trofimov's earlier Wall Street Journal article but does exibit some similar phrasing, ie "a pungent goo that burns the tongue". Bunchofgrapes 03:34, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks :) Seems rather than banning it they should regulate it, like Pufferfish. Sortan 16:11, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I was surprised to find this article, and hope I can assuage some doubts. My Dad is Sardinian and we lived there for a time when I was small. I can assure you from personal experience this cheese exists. Unfortunately, my personal experience is not footnote-able. I have tried the cheese myself, albeit a small bit from the edge where my father assured me "there were no worms". It tasted like strong Italian cheese (Pecorino, e.g.) should. You can see the little "worms" wiggling in the cheese if you look closely. They're the same colour as the cheese, kind of an off-white. The word I know for it is "casu marzu" because my dad is from the region where Campidanese Sardinian is spoken; I believe this is one of those Sardinian words which changes depending on where you're from.216.83.10.53 17:56, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

That's reassuring; thanks! I've been tempted for quite a while to change the page name to "Casu marzu", actually. It's hard to prove it's a more common name, but it does have more google hits (948 for "case marzu" vs 349 for "casu modde") and anecdoctally seems more common as well. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:16, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Rename completed. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:32, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Here are some more clues. The online Sardinian dictionary ([1])lists the following variants for casu marzu: c. martzu = casu fatu, fatitadu, fatitu, giampagadu. I got it by just searching on "casu", which means cheese; it's a sub-entry under that. That dictionary is hard to read even if you know some Sardinian. They also spell it with a "t" (as in martzu), but I should warn you that Sardinian spelling is not very standardized. I think the "t" is extra, based on current rules about Sardinian spelling from a book I have (Ello Ellus: Grammatica Della Lingua Sarda, by Eduardo Blasco Ferrer, published by Poliedro Edizioni, Nuoro, 1994).

Another thing which occurred to me is that there is mention of it in my favourite Italian food book (which has recipes but more importantly has tons of info on food, how it's produced, the traditions behind it). It's called Culinaria Italy, by Claudia Pirras (a Sardinian) and Eugenio Medagliani. Published by Könemann, 2000. The mention of it is on p. 464 and they spell it "casumarzu". It more or less confirms the previous discussion of it, although the author does not comment on the legality of it. My dad says it is indeed illegal, and you really do have to get it on the "black market".Cdstollefsen 11:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Just to clarify, 216.83.10.53 and cdstollefsen are one and the same person; I just signed on yesterday and am new to this Wikipedia discussion thing. The article in Culinaria Italy does mention that the "worms" are small white maggots. Not very scientific, I know.Cdstollefsen 11:06, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

The actual reference for the Overstreet article above is here, it's a presidential address from the Journal of Parasitology. WLU 19:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Is the Wall St Journal Article real?

Is there any evidence that Trofimov actually wrote the article? For some reason, the name "Apocalypse Fiction Magazine" doesn't fill me with trust... Ari Nieh 08:58, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Here are excerpts of the article on an Oregon State University website. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:06, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

April 1

This is an April fools joke, right? —This unsigned comment was added by 216.86.125.67 (talk • contribs) .

I wish it were --BorgQueen 09:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

this is a nihilartikel

I realize the only reason it's appeared on the front page's Did You Know section is because of the date, but i think this page needs to be changed to make clear it's fictional nature. I refuse to believe this is anything other than a joke. --Krsont 17:15, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Nope, unfortunately real. DS 14:50, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Although for those curious, the fictional travel guide for Molvanîa features a very similar kind of cheese... I'm fairly sure they were inspired by this one. —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 11:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Ban lifted?

213.196.254.253 (talk · contribs) added to the article:

Within Sardinia, the ban has recently been lifted under the condition that the larvae used in the production are bred in an aseptic environment before being introduced into the cheese.

What is the source for this information? I'm eager to put it back if it has a verifiable source. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:03, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

In the Italian wikipedia entry for this topic, there is a reference (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casu_marzu#Le_ricerche_nei_laboratori) to an attempt made "years ago" to produce the cheese under such conditions. There is a reference link for that statement, but it is no longer accessible, unfortunately. There is no mention of whether or not the attempt was , in fact, successful. ----

Jumping larvae a hoax?

The idea that the larvae will jump 6 in has GOT to be a hoax. No legs or appendages. I've seen common maggots and they're barely mobile at all because they don't need to go anywhere until they become flies. They don't hunt, find food, or evade predators in maggot form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.42.252 (talk)

If it's a hoax, it's ridiculously widespread in all sorts of sources... for example:

"Piophila casei (L.) (the cheese-skipper) coils itself into a circle, then flings itself as far as 20 in. This is a protective measure enabling it to escape predators." -- Haglund, William (1997) Forensic Taphonomy. CRC Press. ISBN 0849394341

They jump not with legs, of course, but by looping around, biting their tail, tensing up, and letting go suddenly. These same larvae were common infestations in cheese and cured meats not that long ago, before refrigeration. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

National Geographic

I saw some people eating this on the National Geographic channel. This is absolutely disgusting. I do not cringe when seeing people eating insects or any other weird things but I thought this was absolutely nasty. "The more the maggots digest and defecate the cheese, the creamier and better it is." Horrid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.78.67.96 (talk) 09:15, September 4, 2006

Casu Marzu

Hi everybody I have just eaten some CASU MARZU. It is kind of bitter and hot.Worms are white and they do actually jump all over the place.Disgusting? yes maybe, but if you are a meat-eater, how can you be squeamish about it? Casu Marzu has been recently "legalised"; my mother bought it yesterday at the local market. Spelling and pronunciation of this cheese depends entirely on what part of Sardinia we are talking about. Just bear in mind that there are many different dialects in Sardinia and many of them are different altogether.There is something more palatable called "callu"(always bear in mind that there are different pronunciations and spellings according to what area you are in).Callu is basically the stomach of lamb cut and smoked. The stomach contains the milk the lamb was suckling from his mother.You eat it with bread and it is extremely hot. Folklore attaches a kind of pre-viagra quality to this cheese.

Can you provide a reference that confirms its legality? And for the other details you describe? Durova^Charge 23:44, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

About legality, selling or buying rotten food, or food contamined by bugs is still illegal (you cannot sell flour with bugs in it, I think it's obvious). You can find cheese in stores, but sellers risk by doing business with a contamined cheese.
Eating stomach, intestine and internal organs is quite common and considered food for special events (e.g. tattalliu-in my dialect-that is liver, lungs, heart, other organs in some regions, put on a stick and wrapped with small intestine, usually baked), but I never ever heard about any aphrodisiac property (and I am sardinian). Sensei 09:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Squeamish? Well, I am a meat eater, but considering the potential health implications, I don't think I'd touch Casu Marzu with a ten foot pole. It's just a thing I have, sorry. ;) 193.69.146.66 09:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Regional names

Originally in the previous comment:

I added in the section "Other regional names" translated from the Italian Wikipedia. Hope that addresses the issue. Jumping cheese ^Cont@ct 07:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that providing such names could be a misleading information: casu marzu is strictly Sardinian. Maybe it should be added a new article for this kind of exotic food. Anyway, our Sardinian cheese (yes I am Sardinian) is the archetypal cheese-with-worms in Italy, and I eat it without any problem :) Sensei 12:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

external link

I think the link to the sequence of larval jumping on an external site either needs to go or needs to be framed differently. The sequence shows an antler fly, not a cheese fly, jumping. The text of this article makes it seem like it is an image of a cheese fly. -Fenevad 19:33, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I remember looking into the antler/cheese fly differences and came away satisfied (though now I can't remember why - may have invovled google). I'd like to leave the link in, I'll have a go at modifying the text. --WLU 20:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

For consideration

Articles meeting the featured article criteria and passing WP:FAC in time can be considered for the April Fools' mainpage, as discussed at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-03-03/Dispatches. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:30, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

MARTZU NOT MARZU

IT IS WROTE MARTZU NOT MARZU. AVETE CAPITO IGNORANTI? EISI CUMPRENDIU MOLLENTISI?

Hi. This is the English Wiki. Additionally, caps do not make you cool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.229.101 (talk) 23:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

In US

Because of the bugs, this cheese may not be able to clear the USDA and the US Dept. of Health. 65.173.105.133 (talk) 06:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

There was an article on consumerist.com saying that the cheese is indeed banned in the US.