Talk:Catholic peace traditions

This article was nominated for deletion on 23 December 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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Image copyright problem with Image:Johnxxiii-color-tiara-sm.jpg

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Almost No References

Latest comment: 13 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

This article involves almost no references. In additions, some of the arguments of the article seem to be suspect. Better referencing is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericsean (talk • contribs) 00:55, 26 August 2009 (UTC)Reply

Amen.andycjp (talk) 01:26, 25 August 2010 (UTC)Reply

And one reason references are missing is because some of the "facts" are incorrect. I'm no expert, but even I know that Sophie Scholl was a Lutheran, not a Catholic. And that the first Catholics in North America were by no means a persecuted minority; they were French and Spanish explorers and colonists very much in the religious mainstreams of their respective home countries.YukonLawrence (talk) 04:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)Reply

Author Response

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The article is by the author of the recognized chief works in the field and full references are given to those (award winning works). The author of the above comment should cite his auhtoreity to make such comments about "references" If references were followed up they would lead to the books and web site cited here. Pacificus07 (talk) 13:03, 14 October 2009 (UTC)Reply

Neutrality

Latest comment: 12 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion

It has been noted that this article needs to be brought into compliance with WP:NPOV.[1] For example, this article's coverage of Catholic peace during the time of the Inquisition, makes no mention of it. Also, there should be copy editing towards a more neutral style that does not appear to accept the point of view of the Christian religion as fact. Examples of these type of copy edits are [2] and [3]. Thanks. --Bob K31416 (talk) 04:12, 4 January 2012 (UTC)Reply

I think we've dealt with the more egregious instances of POV already. But we can check again.

I've been wondering about whether the Inquisition is relevant here; it seems to me that at most it is tangential - perhaps you'd like to propose a brief phrase or sentence - but that no section on it is required: after all, it did not involve war as such. All we should say, perhaps, is that it represents a stern attitude, but even that would be WP:OR unless you can find a suitable source to make the point that it appears somewhat at odds with the peace traditions; and note that there is no reason why the existence of an 'inquisition tradition' should be discussed in an article on another subject, the peace traditions - both could and indeed did exist (at diverse times and places).

Perhaps people wish to argue "If the church is what it claims then it must be perfectly consistent, and a claim to peace is inconsistent with an inquisition, therefore when we write about the church we must point out the inconsistency by talking about the inquisition." But this article is about the peace traditions, not about the church as such, there's another article on that.

So it's rather doubtful whether we have any mandate at all to put the inquisition into this article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:18, 4 January 2012 (UTC)Reply

I think it's worth alerting editors to the absence of the Inquisition and is something for them to consider, regarding how it should be mentioned in the article, and your input is useful. I hadn't considered that a section should be devoted to it, only that it should be used to balance statements regarding Catholic peace during that time. BTW, this was brought to my attention in the AfD by another editor and it seems to be a reasonable thing to consider putting in the article. You might want to look at the relevant excerpt from the article that was mentioned at the AfD by the other editor regarding this point. An edit find of "NPOV" should get you to the right area there. (Not sure my memory is serving me right regarding there being an excerpt there. I may have found it in the appropriate part of the article myself and didn't post it. Anyhow, I expect you could find it just as well in the article.)

Regarding me putting something in about the Inquisition, I may have already spent more effort on this article than I planned to. It's disappointing that so few of the editors who expressed strong opinions at the AfD about keeping the article, and seemed to accept that it has problems to fix, haven't done any editing. Regarding NPOV in general and the whole article, it's a big article. Just looking at a relatively small portion at the beginning showed problems, as indicated by our edits. Considering the article is written mainly by a single editor, and the beginning is a sample of his style, I expect similar problems later. Regards, --Bob K31416 (talk) 10:30, 4 January 2012 (UTC)Reply

It's important never to be disappointed by the amount of effort other volunteers put in - everyone has their own commitments and all time spent to Wikipedia is freely given. Some people only have time to look at urgent priorities at AfD; others undertake heavy editing commitments. All are welcome.

I have looked quickly over the whole article; there don't seem to be any glaring NPOV problems but no doubt there's room for some tweaking. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:37, 4 January 2012 (UTC)Reply

P.S. I just thought of something else to look for. Conflicts between Catholics and protestants, for example the Catholics of the IRA in modern times, and much earlier historical periods of conflict and persecution. Not to be included as whole sections necessarily, but to again balance the notion of Catholic peace. --Bob K31416 (talk) 10:53, 4 January 2012 (UTC)Reply

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