Talk:Cats (musical)

Use of "Political Correctness"

Alteration in lyrics from 'Chinks' to 'Siamese' was described as 'politically correct', a term that has negative connotations and is used primarily by critics of multiculturalism, etc. I deleted the term and substituted a more neutral one.

Changed it back, it IS "politically correct" which is a neutral term, wheras calling it "modern sensibility" is POV.

Changed it to "racially insensitive." Per Wikipedias own definition of the term political correctness, it is generally used in a pejorative sense and therefore not neutral. I also renamed the title of this discussion, since it's about the use of the term "political correctness." Rblum 22:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Plot

The plot is too long and far too detailed, it tells the entire musical, wheras I think it should just give an outline of sorts, short and simple instead of the entire show!

Is there anymore to what happens in the musical, or is it really as devoid of story as the plot summary suggests?Artiste-extraordinaire 14:11, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think that officially, no, but there have been plenty of theories on the internet. Just read comments on some of the Cats 1998 songs from the musical's official YouTube channel and you'll see. Especially in the Bustopher Jones and Mr. Mistofelees videos. 2605:59C8:4377:B110:B532:BCA8:265F:3A1E (talk) 01:18, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

The synopsis of the musical in this article is a little dry, but really, CATS has a beautiful and touching story. I am also of the opinion that you cannot fully understand the story of CATS until you hear it sung and see it danced. If you want to get the full story, I'd suggest watching the video. Though it's not the same as seeing it on stage, and small sections are omitted, it has phenomenal dancing.Ladyjanegrey94 (talk) 03:39, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Goog 207.35.157.242 (talk) 13:56, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Trivia

The musical's name, Cats, can be translated into Finnish, my language (=Kissat). However, since the Finnish word "kissat" may have a discriminating tone (against ladies) it never obtained a local translation. It's been known as "Cats" ever since its premiere.

Producers almost never used local translations. The exceptions are Poland and Hungary. (And maybe Russia.) Poland was Koty and Hungary advertised the show as both Macskak and Cats. According the the press releases by RUG the producers of the Mexican show did an opinion poll to see if potential viewers would respond better to "Gatos". Cats won. --Kunzite 13:54, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The idea for a musical about cats was introduced in the 1933 Busby Berkley movie, Footlight Parade, staring James Cagney, on the Warner Brothers label. Cagney played a Broadway producer coping with competition from the newly invented talking movies by simultaneously producing dozens of short, live, prologue musical shows to open for the movies. Cats was just one of his many gimicks. He gives a real cat to the director so he can teach the dancers to move like a cat. There is one scene of a dress rehearsal with dancers in cat costumes. [Onerock] 02:48, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Redirect

Shouldn't Cats the word be redirected to the article Cat? When people think about Cats they think about the species felis silvestris catus not the musical. The musical can be put in the disambiguation. For example search up Dogs in the search box, when someone types cats in the search box they more likely wanted to know about the Cat not some musical. Pseudoanonymous 22:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the current system is wrong. When people search for CATS they usually search for the musical, not the cat itself. So making a difference between CATS and CAT is as propiate as making a difference between football (soccer) and american football. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.104.205 (talk) 21:02, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Appearance in Ads

I recently wrote a paragraph about a PSA featuring some of the Jellicles, which was deleted because apparently "they have been featured in many ads". Does this mean a section about the ads they have appeared in may be in order? I don't know what anyone else thinks, but if the Cats have appeared in a lot of ads, shouldn't we at least mention it? Lycanthrope777 20:24, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I dont think its aprociate to redirect Cats to Cat. Most people who search for CATS is looking for the musical and most people who search for CAT is probebly looking for the animal. Its like redirecting TANKS to the word THANKS. You shoudnt need to think twice to get to the musical. Otherwise a very good and informative page.

Removed section

"CATS has been touring throughout the UK, with stops in Portugal and Brazil. The current UK Tour 2006/07 is as follows:...Some cast changes are expected by the end of February, even though most of the ensemble will still be the same." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kunzite (talk • contribs) 21:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

Vandalism

I was thinking that it might be best if we do something to stop all this random vandalism that's been happening. Maybe we should make it that you have to be a member of Wikipedia to edit it. The Quidam

Yep, it would be best! --Lilidor 17:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I think we really should. This is starting to be a real problem and, it's getting out of hand as well! --The Quidam 4:10pm, 22 January 2007

I agree. How does that get down? Rblum 22:29, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

You can request it here. On a similar note, what the devil is the Playbill bit of the infobox supposed to be? Someone changed it to Rumpelstiltskin (although much typo'd), but I have no idea where the change occurred, and so I'm at a loss to fix it (I've simply removed it). If anyone is knowledgeable about that site's workings, please add in the show's proper id. Blast ^{[improve me]} 12.06.07 0454 (UTC)

Popular Culture

This show has had significant resonance, including emulation, spoofs, references to, etc. in popular culture. To cite one tiny example, the David Letterman show featured a recurring "advertisement" for Cats starring Chris Elliot that was a spoof, and David continued to mis-quote the opening lines of the song "Midnight". How about adding a section called something like "Cats in Popular Culture." I am not the one to start this. --NYCJosh 23:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a good idea in theory but we have to think about this. Do you know how many pop culture refrences Cats has? The Quidam 02:29, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

No, but I suppose that was a rhetorical question. We could start with some of the more well-known ones. We don't have to be exhaustive of the topic. The section would provide a few examples and thereby show cultural resonance of the show. --NYCJosh 23:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree that we should add a section that talks about references to CATS in Pop Culture. I've noticed this in shows like Golden Girls, Bojack Horseman, SNL, and more. Tuggersgirlbomba (talk) 22:26, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Criticism

Ok so in popular culture I know that cats is universally panned, but could we get some sort of critical reaction section going? Agree this show is utter far age, can someone locate a critic not afraid to say as much?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.154.132.83 (talk) 16:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this- I'm in Canada where "Cats" is not really a big deal and occasionally watch BBC shows where they seem to take it as given that everyone knows it and hates it (and all Andrew Loyd Webber musicals in general), and I don't understand why. A section dealing with critical reception when it opened and current perception (in England) would be informative. Just listing awards won doesn't really give a very big picture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.165.147.91 (talk) 12:02, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Part of the reason lies in the persistent (and IMHO not unfounded) allegations of musical plagiarism by ALW. --87.244.71.152 (talk) 08:05, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Oops?

Looks like something disappeared here. Can't find the missing text in recent revisions...

Lloyd Webber's eclecticism is very strong here; musical genres range from Cats was first shown in London's West End Theatre West End, at the New London Theatre. 11 May 1981.

Original costs

While the US version was undoubtedly a more expensive venture, the way this is worded now is a bit misleading on the surface in that at the then current rates of exchange, the original UK production cost was actually around US $1.8 million.

Notabilty in the context of Cats Casts

We seem to have a LOT of edits of people adding in their favourite performers to the "Notable Casts" sections here. In a show that has been running nearly 30 years, in countless productions across almost the entire world, a comprehensive list of everyone who has performed in the show is simply not possible, and certainly not of interest! Production information is valuable, when and where the show was performed, but not necessarily who was involved unless there was otherwise famous casting.

I propose, therefore, that this article includes the following CASTING information:

Historical information:

Original Cast - London 1981 - created the show therefore notable

Original Broadway Cast - Musical theatre is so broadway-centric

1998 Video Cast - as the recorded version of the show, this is what most people are familiar with, linking information to performers' pages will be of interest.

One paragraph including notable Cats alumni - and it seems to me that the criteria for notability in Wikipedia is simple - do they already have a page? If yes, they're notable. If no, and their name is a redlink, not notable!

CURRENT:

But what to do about the current productions? AFAIK there is currently the US tour, World Tour, major productions in Brazil and Japan, and the upcoming German/European tour. Is all that casting information encyclopedic? Will it all get added anyway?

I'm going to go ahead and pare down the notable casts back to OLC, OBC and video. I'd appreciate feedback on the current productions too!

Belle pullman (talk) 10:33, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the Original London, Original Broadway, and 1998 video are notable. I think the proliferation of cast lists is a problem in the article; however, part of the issue is that Cats is an ensemble show; in many musicals, one can just list a few major characters for each production. I don't think current tour casts are notable; tour casts change from year to year, and (in my opinion) the Cats tour casts have not been as good (or well-known) as the original casts and video cast. I also don't think the new foreign productions are particularly notable, as they're just basically a repeat of the original productions. Perhaps a Broadway or London revival would be notable (neither have happened yet). MarianKroy (talk) 15:19, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Many of the "notable" performers are members of the current or recent US tour, all of whom are non-equity and mostly fresh out of college. With few credits and no corresponding Wiki entry, they do not qualify as "notable." I am going to remove instances where I know this to be the case. Room317 (talk) 20:31, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Good! To be honest the page is starting to resemble a page of lists, which is against Wikipedia policy anyway under their "LINKFARM" policy heading.TR Wolf (talk) 00:39, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Eric the Half-a-Bee

Can someone familiar with the musical please verify Eric the Half-a-Bee#CATS version (added 18 May 2010)? ToE^T 13:47, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty certain that this has nothing to do with CATS.Tuggersgirlbomba (talk) 23:53, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Characters

Is it really necessary to have a separate article for each of the characters from the show? There's no question that Cats is notable and deserves to be in an encyclopedia, but I don't feel that an entry is warranted for each fictional character. I know the guidelines for fictional characters is a bit fuzzy on WP, but what are other peoples thoughts? LogicalFinance33 (talk) 05:23, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree that none of the characters are independently notable (for example, they haven't entered popular culture in contexts beyond the musical) and hence should me merged here or deleted. Klbrain (talk) 20:27, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

I believe as a big fan of this musical that each character with some significance their own separate article. Certain chorus characters or characters that are often cut from productions do not need their own page. I'm sure other super fans would agree.Tuggersgirlbomba (talk) 00:51, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

I agree there should not be separate pages for fictional characters, this is an encyclopedia, not a fan page.47.33.49.159 (talk) 01:39, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

This, and some other pages, link to a now non-existent list of characters in the Jellicle Cats page. (the 2/2/2020 edit by Neil S Walker removed them, giving the justification 'The musical has its own article; thgis isa purely about the book. Plus, importantly, unreferenced...'). Perhaps there needs to be a 'List of Characters from the musical Cats' page to contain them and be linked to, so as to avoid overburdening this page, and to avoid spillage from articles about the musical into articles about the original book of poetry. (The original list can be recovered from the version history of Jellicle Cats.) Chalisque (talk) 12:30, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Elaine Paige

How could EP have "originated" the role of Grizabella if Judy Dench was in the premiere? Did EP stand in for JD when JD did her leg in? Myrvin (talk) 18:32, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes she did. Had a go at fixing it. Myrvin (talk) 18:47, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Too many lists

I've just had a go at rearranging some of the information in this article, however I feel that a lot of it is unnecessary to include. For example, the 'notable' cast lists seem excessive. It's still a popular show - must we include every professional production? Also, the sporadic chart listings for otherwise unmentioned recordings? Unless anyone has any strong feelings about these, I'm strongly considering removing them. Chewy5000 (talk) 05:35, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

I think It's fair to include the different casts, as it is still the same show, and they do the same thing. Including different casts is respectful to the actors who put in so much time to perform and learn the show — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:3003:206B:126D:C802:FEAF:565B:3B05 (talk) 14:03, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

@2406:3003:206B:126D:C802:FEAF:565B:3B05: Hi, the message you are replying to was made in 2016. The "notable cast list" section mentioned above has since already been trimmed extensively to remove all cast lists except those from West End/Broadway/films. Any other notable cast members are instead mentioned in prose in the "Production history" section. Please note that Wikipedia is not meant to be an indiscriminate collection of information, and adding a multitude of non-notable cast members would be more appropriate on a fan site than a general encyclopedia. Bennv3771 (talk) 14:20, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Cats (musical). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080503120656/http://www.catstour.co.uk:80/introduction.html to http://www.catstour.co.uk/introduction.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:27, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on Cats (musical). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080414183135/http://www.reallyuseful.com/rug/shows/cats/show.htm to http://www.reallyuseful.com/rug/shows/cats/show.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130207082720/http://www.stagecoach.co.uk/spotlight/121-reflections-on-cats.html to http://www.stagecoach.co.uk/spotlight/121-reflections-on-cats.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141218214149/http://fingerlakesmtf.com/2013-season/cats/ to http://fingerlakesmtf.com/2013-season/cats/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080511221908/http://theatre-musical.com/cats/poems.html to http://www.theatre-musical.com/cats/poems.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080815020451/http://www.reallyuseful.com/rug/shows/cats/cast/origlondon1981.htm to http://www.reallyuseful.com/rug/shows/cats/cast/origlondon1981.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100407095655/http://www.reallyuseful.com/shows/cats/shows-archive/cats-cast-lists/1998-film to http://www.reallyuseful.com/shows/cats/shows-archive/cats-cast-lists/1998-film
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.catstour.co.uk/introduction.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150426213533/http://london.catsthemusical.com/ to http://london.catsthemusical.com/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:01, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

west end revival cast?

hello, i was wondering if it might be appropriate to add the west end revival cast to the table and so subsequent further 'cat' pages. what does everyone think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosemaries19 (talk • contribs) 23:36, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree that the West End Revival Cast list should be added to the Notable Cast page. There is some mention of it at the bottom, but I agree that it should be added.Tuggersgirlbomba (talk) 23:55, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm planning on adding the West End Revival Cast to the Notable Casts list within the next few days. If anyone has strong feelings about not doing so, please let me know, and I won't add it. If it has already been added, and you would like it removed, feel free to do so!Tuggersgirlbomba (talk) 21:57, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Cast recordings

Could you consider including a bit about the recordings that have been made of the show? I see that you only have a section with the tracks of the London cast. It would be good to include any mention of the other Cats recordings that have been made in English and the foreign languages. The Broadway and Australian recordings are noteworthy in presenting numbers that were changed for productions after the London recording. Yip1982 (talk) 04:49, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Notable casts-- should we include the 2019 US tour?

I reverted an IP's addition of the 2019 US tour cast. My reasoning is that there have been a lot of national tours of this musical since the 1980s in the US, the UK and worldwide. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and the article would be unreadable if we were to include every single national tour cast that has ever existed. So what makes this particular cast "notable" but not the others? None of the cast members have their own Wikipedia articles, and it's not as if they are the only current professional touring production (there's one in Europe, one in Mexico and one in Japan right now). Currently the only tour cast listed is the first national US one. I would support removing that as well, though I can also see an argument that being the "first" may make them worth mentioning hence why I've left it alone. My point being, is there any compelling reason (i.e. not WP:RECENTISM or WP:PROMO) why the 2019 US tour cast should be listed? Bennv3771 (talk) 20:03, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Longest Running

User:Bennv3771 just undid my edit mentioning Les Mis in 2006 overtaking Cats as longest running musical in London's West End, saying:

"unnecessary and inaccurate; Phantom - not Les Mis - overtook it on Broadway which is one of the two theatre districts mentioned)"

Wouldn't this suggest adding both Phantom (Broadway) and Les Mis (West End) to further explain why Cats is no longer the longest running in either district? The reason I made the edit, was because as soon as I read Cats used to be the longest running, I immediately found myself asking "what beat it?". Splidje (talk) 14:37, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

@Splidje: I didn't add both because I think such details are unnecessary for the lead, plus it would make the sentence awkwardly long. If a reader is interested in further details, that's what the rest of the article is for. If you're going to go ahead and add it in, please split the sentence to be more reader-friendly and link the correct article(s) this time. Bennv3771 (talk) 14:45, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

@Bennv3771: Apologies. I hadn't noticed the information is further down! Yes, completely agree it's not necessary in the lead. Splidje (talk) 14:59, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Suggest merge February 2020

It's very unusual to have a single element of a musical given it's very own article. Perhaps Heaviside Layer (Cats) could be merged to this article to give it appropriate context ? It's got nothing to do with atmospheric physics ro radio propagation, and the current title is an ulikely search term. --Wtshymanski (talk) 23:05, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

This seems reasonable to me. The Heaviside Layer (Cats) article is extremely short, would make a reasonable subheading of the Cats (musical) article, but seems too short to be an article on its own. Geoffrey.landis (talk) 15:34, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I approve of the merger, it is a very small article to have its own page Anonymous from the 21st century (talk) 21:42, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the points already made. In addition, I believe the Heaviside Layer referenced in Cats is in fact the Kennelly-Heaviside Layer of the ionosphere. They are not two different things. Sure, Cats uses the Heaviside Layer as a metaphor, but it is not standard WP practice to create separate articles about every nonliteral reference to an actual thing. E.g., there is no WP page for "crown" in the sense of "these lands belong to the crown". NillaGoon (talk) 21:38, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

This idea is good and reasonable. - Anonymous, 19:51, 17 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.87.60.89 (talk)

Done. --Wtshymanski (talk) 23:21, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Cats listed under 'Others' is currently a broken link

The cats under 'Others' are linked to a page entitled 'Jellicle cats' where longer descriptions of the characters used to be. These descriptions are no longer there (the justification being that the Jellicle cats mentioned in that article referred only to the books, not the musical). Perhaps there needs to be a list made of characters from the musical? Chalisque (talk) 16:35, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - RPM SP 2022 - MASY1-GC 1260 200 Thu

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 February 2022 and 5 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tianhao Ning (article contribs).

Andrew Lloyd Webber's Cats Story In His Own Words

I didn't know how to accurately title this topic, but what it meant was: if you want to hear about part of the history and conception of Cats straight from the jellicle's milk-soaked mouth, Andrew Lloyd Webber livestreamed a reaction to the 1998 version, and while you can't see the musical (only faintly hear it), I recommend it if you want to confirm or deny some of the things this article says, as well as a video from the channel "The Show Must Go On!" in which there's a short interview where he talks about the origins and the initial conception of Cats. Triviatronic9000 (talk) 01:41, 19 June 2023 (UTC)