Talk:Cedrus

species

Cedars 4 species. look; http://species.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedrus —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.98.124.70 (talk • contribs) .

See the references on the page - MPF 01:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Uses: Food Preparation

Cedar planks can be used to smoke meats. Particularly fish, such as salmon.CompIsMyRx 05:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Reverted Vandalism

Reverted some nonsense vandalism it seems. Xenocide wm 00:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Etymology

I would like to see some documentation that the ancient Romans used the word "cedrus" or that the ancient Greeks used the word "kedros" only for species now classified in the genus Cedrus and for no other plants. I have seen some references suggesting that the ancient Greeks and Romans used this word for several trees and shrubs with strongly aromatic wood, including Juniperus. At any rate, trying to apply phylogenetic concepts to pre-Linnaean terms like "cedar" and "cedrus" is always fraught with nomenclatural peril. MrDarwin 19:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

If the name is originally greek, how is the arabic translation? Those of the Libanon are famous! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.133.155.70 (talk) 13:51, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Scientific names

According to the IUCN Red List [1] there are 4 distinct species of Cedars (Cedrus brevifolia, Cedrus atlantica, Cedrus deodara and Cedrus libani). NO, CEDAR IS JUNIPEROUS NOT CEDRUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TAXONOMY

Where is Siberian cedar? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.219.191.210 (talk) 13:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

How to preserve a 10 foot baby cedar

How to preserve a dug out 10-ft. cedar with only bare roots (no soil or clay attached) for about a month without planting it?

Please help. Thanks.

Chaos Moonlight (talk) 00:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)Chaos MoonlightChaos Moonlight (talk) 00:36, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

==I'm looking for info on "Bald Cedars". Can anyone help? ==Does anyone know anything

dbm m klp iotn u nbvke k0i8jsr;, 9johkpahyt8uqv b bm r,ev —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.204.189.71 (talk) 00:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Common uses of Cedar

The berries on cedar trees can be made into a drinkable juice called Gin. The wood on cedar trees are used for chests and ornamental things. The foliage isn't usually used for anything except for possible temporary decor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.196.36.185 (talk) 01:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm not entirely certain but I think you may be thinking of the wrong "cedar". For one, the true cedars (trees of the genus Cedrus) do not have berries, they have cones. You may be referring to some other plant that is colloquially referred to as the cedar but is in fact not of the genus Cedrus (in Quebec for example, thujas are often referred to as a cèdre, even though they are in fact unrelated). Elostirion (talk) 22:14, 16 February 2009 (UTC)And the difference between Cedar and Port Orford Cedar is they are from 2 different families and natures.

It's possible that the berries and gin is a reference to Juniperus; Juniperus virginiana is one of the many trees that are called cedars. Lavateraguy (talk) 09:08, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The reference to shakes and shingles on this page seems suspect, wouldn't that more likely be Western red cedar? Nadiatalent (talk) 19:51, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

This has been removed, it is Thuja that has these uses. I've also removed the reference to musical instruments which as far as I know also ONLY are made from Thuja, but perhaps there is some little-known use of Cedrus ... Nadiatalent (talk) 12:24, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Some confusion comes from omitting the Pinus sibirica, the siberian cedar. (see the Russian Wikipedia). It is a rich source of food for animals and humans, since every August those trees produce plenty of cones, containing edible and tasty seeds, which are relatively large (they are not "berries".) Chipmunks climb the trees and bring back up to 40 seeds in their sacks at every travel. They dig deep holes in the ground and place there up to 3 kilograms of those seeds, for eating in the wintertime. Bears frequently find and rob that storage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.129.133.172 (talk) 03:44, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Four species concept

Most of the new taxonomic sources support the four species concept for the genus Cedrus. E.g.:

• The Gymnosperm Database
• NCBI Taxonomy Browser
• Farjon (2008): A Natural History of Conifers. Timber Press.

A three species concept (Cedrus brevifolia is a subspecies of Cedrus libani) is supported by:

• GRIN Taxonomy for Plants

Currently, this article is based on User:MPF's personal opinion. His references (added on December 5, 2007) supporting the two species concept are:

• One article by himself.
• Some ancient articles.
• Regional floras, mostly very old.

I suggest the four species concept should be adopted here. Krasanen (talk) 12:56, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi, i suggest involving as much specialists in this decision as possible, please refer to Rkitko on this matter Eli+ 13:30, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

The current Flora of China (vol. 4) also supports four species in Cedrus. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:33, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not very familiar with these taxa, so I'll just say that if it seems like the recognition of four species over two is still under debate in most circles, I'd write it as such. If four species appear to be recognized more often and more recently, I'd write it as such and note that it's changed and that some older publications preferred the two species arrangement. I've alerted WP:PLANTS as well, so you may get a few better-informed opinions. Rkitko ^(talk) 16:04, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Those are OK as tertiary sources, but to get a bit closer to the evidence, see for example three non-paywalled articles: Phylogeny and Biogeography of Cedrus (Pinaceae) Inferred from Sequences of Seven Paternal Chloroplast and Maternal Mitochondrial DNA Regions ("all taxonomists accept the Himalaya cedar C. deodara, but classification of the circum-Mediterranean cedars is quite controversial"; they cite two-species papers as recently as 2003), Genetic diversity and structure of natural and managed populations of Cedrus atlantica (Pinaceae) assessed using random amplified polymorphic DNA (I didn't see anything beyond C. atlantica, but perhaps helpful in terms of what genetic variation is like in this genus), Phylogeography of North African Atlas cedar (Cedrus atlantica, Pinaceae): Combined molecular and fossil data reveal a complex Quaternary history (likewise, although I saw at least one mention of other Cedrus). This was a pretty cursory search; since it seems to be a well-studied group there is probably more to find. I didn't spend too much time reading but based on what I saw so far, "two to four different species" (or two to five) seems right. Kingdon (talk) 02:44, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for those additional references. The first one says: "The tree topology, together with branch length, also supports North African C. atlantica as a separate species". The two latter articles do not discuss infrageneric classification but nevertheless write C. atlantica, not C. libani var./subsp. atlantica. Krasanen (talk) 14:03, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Changed to the four species concept as proposed above. Actually I think the reason why MPF favoured the variety concept is that so he could add here his own combination (C. libani var. stenocoma). Krasanen (talk) 13:22, 4 December 2009 (UTC) Otherwise that combination is barely used. Krasanen (talk) 13:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Confusion due to the name of the page

I'd like to propose that this page should be listed under Cedrus, not Cedar. I've made a start, but the number of pages that should link to Thuja or Juniperus or Chamaecyparis instead of to this page is huge, and the confusion appears likely to continue despite our best efforts as well-meaning people insert statements that shakes and shingles are made from Cedrus, etc. Nadiatalent (talk) 12:37, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree. To better serve the reader, if they want to read about the tree from which cedar wood comes, when they type in "cedar" or "cedar wood" they go to the disambiguation page. Then they will know that the common name "cedar" isn't one kind of tree.--Brambleshire (talk) 16:13, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Done, more-or-less. An administrator is needed to change the name of Cedar (disambiguation) to simply Cedar. Nadiatalent (talk) 14:22, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was withdrawn. Yeah, my bad. --BDD (talk) 04:27, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

• Cedrus → Cedar
• Cedar → Cedar (disambiguation)

– This meets WP:FLORA's criterion of a plant with "agricultural, horticultural or cultural importance" such that the subject's WP:COMMONNAME should be preferred to the scientific. The current dab page at Cedar received 27,417 visitors last month, which is quite high for a dab and suggests user-unfriendly titling. While the current arrangement might still be wise if many non-Cedrus species were referred to as cedars, but I don't see any evidence of this. The Siberian pine may occasionally be erroneously called a cedar, but that seems to be the result of a translation error. BDD (talk) 21:44, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose Cedrus isn't the only tree called "cedar", or even the one most commonly associated with the word, which depends on where you are. -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 04:05, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Someone fix the Description section

there's a part of the 'description' section where a large portion of text appears to have been cut out, gibberish included (nbsp;mm).

> The shoots are dimorphic, with long shoots, which form the framework of the branches, and short shoots, which carry most of the nbsp;mm long, arranged in an open spiral phyllotaxis on long shoots, and in dense spiral clusters of 15–45 together on short shoots; — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.195.9.13 (talk) 23:11, 26 November 2016 (UTC)