Talk:Celebrity Big Brother 2 (American season)

Move-in Day

@Spanneraol and NintendoGeek: Do we have a source that today is Day 1, just wondering so that we can add the filming date to the article now if possible. TheDoctorWho (talk) 02:08, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Well.. twitter reports from Vegas the spoiler [1] and other BB twitter sites... they probably don't qualify as reliable sources for wikipedia though. Spanneraol (talk) 05:14, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Got it, thanks. We'll eventually be able to source it through the show itself because we can back count the number of days (which is usually shown during broadcast) from the live finale. TheDoctorWho (talk) 05:27, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Well if there is a reliable source stating they will be in the House for 29 Days then move in day would be 1/16/19 since the finale is scheduled for 2/13/19. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 06:05, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

That would work too, just haven't had any luck finding one. TheDoctorWho (talk) 06:16, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Number of Cameras and Microphones

I know this a small detail but on November 27, 2018 CBS Press Express released a press release that stated the BIG BROTHER house outfitted with 94 HD cameras and 113 microphones, recording their every move. However, in the most recent press release from January 14, 2019 about the cast CBSPE stated in a house outfitted with over 80 HD cameras and over 100 microphones recording their every move. They've also updated the about section with the same figures ([2]). Meanwhile, on the CBB CBS about page it reads in a house outfitted with 87 HD cameras and more than 100 microphones, recording their every move. Just wondering which figures should be used? It could be but should not be assumed that 94 and 113 is over 80 and 100 especially with the CBS page reading 87 and 100. TheDoctorWho (talk) 02:35, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Sounds like they got their numbers mixed up this time around :/ I would either go with the first press release that had the exact number 94 cameras/113 microphones or go with the second with the estimate of 80 cameras/100 microphones. The thing about the website is that it changes frequently so it could eventually read the same as the main Big Brother website with no numbers for cameras & microphones. The press release doesn't change once its released a follow-up press release may correct something in a previous release. The thing is the two don't seem to clash the newest is an estimate while the first isn't written as an estimate. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 04:49, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Julie said the number of cameras and microphones during the premiere. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 22:37, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Infobox image

This discussion also applies to Big Brother 17 (U.S. season), Big Brother 18 (U.S. season), Big Brother 19 (U.S. season) and Big Brother 20 (U.S. season).

I've been thinking about the images in the infobox recently and is it absolutely necessary to have the same image over multiple articles? While CBB2 hasn't premiered yet its highly possible the logo in the opening will be the same as Celebrity Big Brother 1 (U.S. season). Reviewing the MOS:TVIMAGE it actually recommends a season-specific promotional poster or home media cover should be used, or possibly a season-specific title card if one exists. The thing is since 2015 American Big Brother no longer have a "season-specific title card" so according to the manual of style the same title card should not be used on multiple articles. Using it on season sixteen and the main article is fine but it shouldn't be used on every season article. Instead we should be looking at what promotional material is available like this since the promotional logo at least changes color each year. (CBB1 was purple, CBB2 is green for example). This promotional image that CBS used a lot last summer would be better suited for Big Brother 20. The briefly used "Big Brother: Takeover" logo would be better suited for season 17, etc. Dancing with the Stars (U.S. TV series) seasons 2-26 is a great example of using promotional images in the infobox since the logo is the same every season. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 22:28, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Meant to reply to this sooner but got sidetracked. Big Brother articles should be no exception to MOS:TVIMAGE unless a season specific title card is created (which is highly unlikely) the promotional image should remain.TheDoctorWho (talk) 03:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

The main policy for images is WP:NFCCP and this can't be overridden by consensus and must be followed. Using the same image on multiple articles violates WP:NFCC#3 which is about minimal usage. I've not ran into an issue with 1 image being used on 2 articles but once the same image is used on 3+ articles its at risk of violating WP:NFCC#3. For example File:Big Brother 16 (U.S.) Logo.png should only be used on Big Brother (U.S. TV series) and Big Brother 16 (U.S. season). Seasons 17-present shouldn't use this image or one very similar to this image (i.e. a screenshot from BB18 that can be seen as a duplicate of File:Big Brother 16 (U.S.) Logo.png). MOS:TVIMAGE provides examples of alternate images that can be used instead.

File:Big Brother 16 (U.S.) Logo.png was put up for discussion in 2017 when it was used on 4 articles but nothing was done at the time due to no consensus. If more editors come across the image they can discuss it again and the outcome could change. I have alternate logos for seasons 18-20 saved but was hoping this generates more discussion for a stronger consensus. For now I did change the image on Big Brother 17 (U.S. season) to an alternate version because its not an exact duplicate of the BB16 image.

In my opinion File:Big Brother (U.S. TV Series) Logo.png should actually be used on Big Brother (U.S. TV series) because this logo (minus the eye) is still used as an alternate, secondary logo for the series. This can be seen in some seasons on the Houseguests keys, Julie's notecards from BB20, etc. File:Big Brother 16 (U.S.) Logo.png should only be used on Big Brother 16 (U.S. season) since that was the first season to use the current logo. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 05:28, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

1st HOH

CarterMatt (a reputable source) claims that Ryan Lochte will be the first HOH. Should we fill that in now, or wait until it's officially announced? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.64.25.63 (talk) 03:12, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Was this revealed during a Live Feed leak? Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 10:53, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

The "evidence" is that on a live feed preview, Kato said Ryan didn't have to give him the hoh key cause he "had one made" (he was joking)... this implies that Ryan was hoh... but in my opinion is not strong enough evidence of such to include in the article. Spanneraol (talk) 14:59, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

If there is no strong evidence to included it then why is it in the article? MSalmon (talk) 18:09, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

It was removed but some editors keep adding it back in. I'll go back to see if there is a clear conformation in the new live feed previews of Ryan being the HoH. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 01:14, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

We still don't know for sure who wins that HOH comp... it will be on tonight's show... please wait till it airs to add the info in. Yes we can surmise from the leaks that Ryan probably wins it but we don't know for sure and assuming so would constitute Original Research which we aren't supposed to use for wikipedia. Spanneraol (talk) 21:08, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay so on the topic of editing/adding into the voting history - are live feed info counted as a reliable source when editing? I read through the wikipedia's guidelines but unsure about video sources being allowed... Michaelmarill (talk) 22:18, 23 January 2019 (UTC)Michaelmarill

@Michaelmarill: This will be a long explanation but I will try to shorten when possible. This usually gets asked often however from my understanding the consensus is live feed spoilers are allowed if they can be verified. There isn't a way to cite the live feed itself like there is episodes of a TV show. However there are ways of citing live feed information without using the live feed itself.

• Celebrity Big Brother: After Dark: If any info is revealed during Celebrity Big Brother: After Dark it can be cited by using the {{cite episode}} template and meets requirements of WP:V. As long as CBBAD isn't on a commercial break typically any updates during 9pm-12am PST (12am-3am EST) can be cited.
• Reliable websites: Some live feed spoilers can be cited by using articles from GlobalTV's website, The Hollywood Reporter, etc. An example would be THR's article about Anthony's departure. Sites like Inside the BB House can also be used as it is part of FanSided which is owned by Meredith Corporation. This article is a good example because it covers information like Kandi being the replacement nominee, Kato won PoV and saved Tom which resulted in Joey being nominated can be used until the episode that covers these events air on CBS.

As per WP:LINKSTOAVOID "blogs, personal web pages and most fansites should not be used except those written by a recognized authority". So fansites like Big Brother Network, bbspy, Big Blagger, etc. should not be used for live feed updates. Now sites like reality blurred which is written by Andy Dehnart can be used as he would be considered a recognized authority and would meet requirements of WP:V. Like this article can be used verify Anthony left sometime on 1/21/19.

The only info I haven't been able to verify yet about Ricky winning any PoV competition and leaving nominations the same before Anthony left the House. IMO at bare minimum I think editors should put the time the event occurred on the live feed in the edit summary. Normally I would remove this but since there is an episode airing tonight and most of the spoilers are verified by reliable sources I'm personally waiting on tonight's episode before removing the bit about Ricky's PoV win. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 23:36, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Power of Veto symbol

Hi, was just wondering where we can use the PoV symbol since we can't use it in the infobox? MSalmon (talk)

Nowhere. Now a couple of busybodies have decided to ruin all the articles. RIP to our amazing templates.DonutsAndBakewells (talk) 22:17, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

@Msalmon: From my understanding the Houseguest table should only be updated with the final result (i.e. evicted, walked, won, etc) based on Gonnym's last reply at this discussion. Gonnym works more with WP:BIGBRO's parent project WP:TV. So we wouldn't need to use that image on every in progress season based on that. However if the majority of editors want to continue updating the Houseguests table like the old infoboxes during a season I'm remaining neutral for now to see where the overall consensus is. There are {{Table cell templates}} that can be used in the table so coding doesn't have to be done manually each time. I made a table below of what could be used during the season which produces the same colors as before and the current agreed upon final result templates.

Code for table	Displays this	Used for
Season in progress
{{good|Head of Household}}	Head of Household	Current HoH
{{longlisted|Nominated}}	Nominated	Nominated for eviction
{{safe|[[File:Big Brother PoV sign.png|20px]] Power of Veto winner}}	Power of Veto winner	PoV Winner
{{maybe|Immune}}	Immune	Immunity/Exempt
Final result (see this discussion for more info)
{{won|Winner}}	Winner	Winner
{{Runner-up}}	Runner-up	Runner-up
{{eliminated|Evicted}}	Evicted	Evicted
{{CRemoved|Expelled}}	Expelled	Expelled
{{Quit|Walked}}	Walked	Walked/Voluntary exit

Hope this answers your question. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 01:45, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Voting history table

Before an all out edit war begins there needs to be some clarification. Pinging @NintendoGeek and TheDoctorWho: as of now the Houseguest table should use the templates above while the voting history should continue to use code like this | style="background:#959ffd"|''Nominated''. This is due to the voting history aka nomination tables using custom colors depending on twists that there isn't a template for. Also as of now there hasn't been a consensus to use these templates in the voting history table and a such consensus would impact every Big Brother season article not just the the American version. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 03:26, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Anthony?

We still don't know for sure why he is out of the house.. the reports are contradictory and CBS hasn't announced anything.. so is it proper to say he "walked"? Maybe he was always supposed to leave? The cast members keep saying he was "not a real houseguest?" Maybe he broke a rule of some sort and was booted? Shouldn't we wait for more info? It was also day 6 not day 5 as they moved in on wednesday and he left on monday. Spanneraol (talk) 23:45, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

I would go with this and this for now. If he wasn't a real "houseguest" I doubt CBS and the producers would have treated him as such. Instead they would have hinted that someone is a mole in the premiere like they did the Saboteur from BB12. For now its best based on the articles from reliable sources to mark him as "Walked" for now. If he was "a mole" or "not a real houseguest" like the other Houseguests are speculating then he will be removed from the Houseguest table similar to this and his time in the house will be summarized. --Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 23:57, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

For now, it's just speculation and we'll wait till the truth is revealed. OfficerAPC (talk) 00:59, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Sounds like the twist that sends a second houseguest home is the Anthony thing... Jayab314 (talk) 02:09, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Unless a reliable source indicates something different we should leave his status as is for now and go with the three reliable sources in the article about his departure. --Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 02:24, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

I feel like this is going to come up so I'm starting/resuming the discussion here. I'm agreeing with @Jayab314: here, because Anthony was nominated he should be left in the Voting History table, I've just grade out his status in both the HG table and the Voting table using a color that's used at {{cNone}} and {{N/a}}. Thoughts? TheDoctorWho (talk) 01:43, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

@TheDoctorWho: I agree with keeping Anthony as a houseguest because we can't forget the fact he was in the house for six days and competed in two competitions, along with being nominated. I did, however change the houseguest amount on the main US page from 12 to 11 and added a note. Jayab314 (talk) 01:46, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

@Jayab314: I noticed that you hid the Scaramucci departure controversy paragraph. I think that it's very reliably sourced and could remain but just change the subheading to Fake Houseguest it would be good to explain specific information about how the twist worked. TheDoctorWho (talk) 01:49, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Johnathan's nomination

Like Ryan's HoH, shouldn't Johnathan's nomination be extended like Ryan's? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.47.128 (talk) 07:04, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

I've been against the extending head of household and nominations like that. However they are separate rounds of nominations within the first week and I think Jonathan's nomination shouldn't be extended. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 08:01, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Big Brother 4 (U.S. season)#Improved Table Format

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Big Brother 4 (U.S. season)#Improved Table Format . Helloman124 is proposing a change to the Houseguests tables that would impact all Big Brother articles. Please visit the article and discuss the change. Thank you! Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:13, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Logo and Days

You guys know that the actual logo from season one is being used ON THE SHOW for season 2 and it has been confirmed that the season has been 29 days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nobo71 (talk • contribs) 13:38, January 25, 2019 (UTC)

I've taken care of the number of days. For the logo see the above discussion. TheDoctorWho (talk) 13:52, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Nobo71 See this discussion but the TL;DR version is after the cast image almost got deleted upon reviewing MOS:TVIMAGE guidelines and WP:NFCCP policy, specifically WP:NFCC#3, copyrighted non-free images can't be used on a lot of articles. In accordance with MOS:TVIMAGE (which applies to Big Brother articles) the main image (File:Celebrity Big Brother (U.S.) Logo.png) can be used on 1 season article and the parent article. Since that image is already being used on Celebrity Big Brother 1 (U.S. season) it can't be used on future seasons because it is not a season specific title card. For season 2 (and any potential future seasons) a promotional poster/image should be used as per MOS:TVIMAGE. Also the image used in the article is also used on the CBS All Access version during the ending credits. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:10, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Anthony in the voting history table

The current way Anthony is included in the voting history table looks a bit complicated unless there is another twist later in the season the row "Exceptions to Evictions" shouldn't be here. It should either be re-named to something that clearly represents the twist or Anthony should just take the empty "Evicted" space that week. The color   comes from other Big Brother articles like Big Brother (UK series 16) which is used for non-Housemates that have an impact on the game that needs to be logged in the table. I here is an example of how the two proposals would look. A third option is to follow the lead Big Brother (UK series 16) used for the "Time Warp Housemates" and leave out the row above "Evicted".

Proposal #1

(Note: For space I abbreviated the table)

	Week 1		Week 2
			Day 10
Head of Household	Ryan		Kato
Nominations (post-veto)	Anthony Jonathan Tom	Joey Jonathan Kandi
Jonathan	Nominated	Nominated	Evicted (Day 10)
Anthony	Nominated	Left (Day 6)
Notes	1, 2, 3, 4
Fake HouseGuest	Anthony	none
Evicted	No eviction	Jonathan 6 of 7 votes to evict

Proposal #2

	Week 1		Week 2
			Day 10
Head of Household	Ryan		Kato
Nominations (post-veto)	Anthony Jonathan Tom	Joey Jonathan Kandi
Jonathan	Nominated	Nominated	Evicted (Day 10)
Anthony	Nominated	Left (Day 6)
Notes	1, 2, 3, 4
Evicted	Anthony Fake HouseGuest Left the house	Jonathan 6 of 7 votes to evict

What do you all think? Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 02:50, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I think we should leave the table as is. If we were picked between two of them, I would choose Proposal #1 but change where it says "Left (Day 6)" to "Fake HouseGuest (Day 6)" Jayab314 (talk) 23:56, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Definitely prefer Proposal 2, but both are better than that confusing, multi-purpose "Twists" row. – Katanin (talk) 21:27, 30 January 2019 (UTC)