Talk:Cenotaph

American Pharmaceutical Association Headquarters

A building intended to serve as a tomb for Abraham Lincoln on the Mall in Washington, D. C. is literally a cenotaph, as he is not buried there, but rather in his beloved Springfield, Illinois; however, as this building is now used for the headquarters of the American Pharmaceutical Association, it is not usually thought of as such.

This is completely false. The APhA HQ was built in the 1930s for the organization itself based on 1907 plans for a Lincoln Farm Association building that would have been a monument to Lincoln's birth. This is why we require sources, people. Don't post stuff that you vaguely remember and call it a day. I am deleting this portion of the text. -- SavMan 21:56, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

It strikes me as improbable tha the cenotaph in London is 900 feet high, and 900 feet deep. This must be a typo.213.182.148.61 13:57, 18 October 2007 (UTC)Tony Waters

You have misunderstood the description in the "Design" section of The Cenotaph, Whitehall. The design uses entasis. 12 May 2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.181.34 (talk) 08:57, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Awkward Sentence

This sentence in the article is very awkward, but it's beyond me to repair it: "It was, for example, very noticeably the only salute made by the Royal Horse Artillery driver of Diana, Princess of Wales's funeral carriage during that procession; on that occasion he did not salute even the Queen."

Clemwang (talk) 01:51, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Anglocentrism

It strikes me that the main feature of this article is the Whitehall cenotaph whereas the concept is much more older than mere british recent military history and broader in its appearance on the earthball. I therefor suggest to revise this article Olnnu (talk) 30 Dec 2009

It's not ethnocentrism generally, but pretty blatant Anglocentrism. "Probably the best-known cenotaph in the modern world," despite its weasel word, is still unsourced POV, not to mention probably wrong. The rest of the article is England, Old Indian Empire, then ROTW (with mostly Commonwealth illustrations.) Agree, it needs a major revision. -LlywelynII (talk) 13:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree — Preceding unsigned comment added by Francispotter (talk • contribs) 15:46, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Boneyard90 (talk) 08:37, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Disagree. Firstly, the article says "Probably the best-known cenotaph in the modern world,", a reasonable claim to make since the Cenotaph in Whitehall served to repopularise this genre of memorial and many, if not most other modern cenotaphs are copies or derive from it stylistically. Secondly this statement is made in the section Cenotaphs in the United Kingdom, all of which are modern, not in the general discussion of these monuments. Thirdly this objection is made without suggesting what other cenotaph in the modern world may be more well known than this. It seems to me that the heart of this objection lies in the absence of any historical context, a better solution would be to add a history section before the discussion of any individual monuments which could then be placed in in a better order.Daffodillman (talk) 05:43, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I would argue that the Cenotaph in Hiroshima qualifies as the "best-known cenotaph in the modern world". I've never heard of "Whitehall". Perhaps it was the "best-known" cenotaph sometime in the past, and that reputation has been eclipsed by other cenotaphs. In either case, a source is needed to support the claim. But yes, a general overview or history section, preceding any section on a specific country, would fit in with the idea of a "revision". Boneyard90 (talk) 14:25, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I think that the Cenotaph in Whitehall is notable enough for its own article, particularly as it is a Grade I listed building, and a focus for significant national events. I'm going to split it out from this article which is about Cenotaphs in general. Thom2002 (talk) 23:40, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable. I'm sure it'd be appreciated if you paste a link here when you're done. Boneyard90 (talk) 00:16, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Boneyard90. New article is now up at The Cenotaph, Whitehall. Thom2002 (talk) 00:21, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Good work. Are you going to put it up for DYK? Boneyard90 (talk) 03:00, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I've given it a go! Thom2002 (talk) 22:10, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Overprinting

"Coordinates", the globe, and the coordinates themselves appear doubled, as if overprinted, in my display. Unfree (talk) 19:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out the problem. The problem is the article has 2 sets of co-ordinates both using a display=title attribute. I have put both sets into the text and left the London one to display in the title area. I have also labelled the 2 instances so that external services can display the appropriate label when using the co-ordinate date. Keith D (talk) 22:14, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Who's Cenotaph?

As a cenotaph is a "tomb without a body", when particular cenotaphs are being mentioned, it may be good to say who they are for. For example, on the current page there is no mention of who the London Cenotaph is a "bodyless-tomb" for. I surmise that it's a British version of the US's Tomb of the Unknowns, but I can't be certain of it from this article. -- 174.21.254.47 (talk) 02:53, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

The British Tomb of the Unknown Warrior is in Westminster Abbey, near to the Cenotaph memorial for the British war dead, in Whitehall. 26 November 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.82.134 (talk) 10:35, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Jekyll's Cenotaph?

I have issue with the first footnote of the article, which states that Lutyens took the idea of the cenotaph from a structure in Jekyll's garden--the source is a newsletter from an area that indeed has a cenotaph, but has not connection to Gertrude Jekyll. I'm doing work on Jekyll and the Cenotaph (two different projects) and can't find any other mention of this except when Wikipedia is quoted by other webpages! I've never done this sort of thing, so I don't really want to correct or edit it myself--but if there IS a connection b/t Jekyll, Lutyens, and the Cenotaph, I'd like to find out what it is...PamelaFrancis (talk) 21:41, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

The "reference" in the Purton, Wilts parish magazine actually shows a gatepost in the village. The gatepost does look a little bit like the shape of the Whitehall cenotaph, but Jekyll lived near Godalming in Surrey! An edit on 3 Sept 2007 claimed that Lutyens got the idea from something in Jekyll garden. A "citation needed" was asked for on 21 Oct 2007. The Purton "reference" appeared on 7 March 2008. I have deleted the Purton material and put in another "citation needed" for the Jekyll garden claim. 21 November 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.58.125 (talk) 15:36, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

The structure in the Jekyll garden is known as the "Cenotaph of Sigismunda". This info as been added to the article, along with reference details. 23 November 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.16.164 (talk) 01:13, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The Cenotaph of Sigismunda bench is the shape of a coffin with a lid on it. The top of the Whitehall Cenotaph is the shape of a coffin with a lid. 10 May 2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.181.34 (talk) 22:40, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

To see a photo of the Cenotaph of Sigismunda search for it on google images. 11 May 2015

This website gives some interesting background information about the matter:

http://pocogardenclub.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/miss-jekyll-portrait-of-a-great-gardener 01 May 2011 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.16.165 (talk) 18:49, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

The Poco club seem to have removed the information from their website. 11 May 2015

This is the information, I retrieved it from an archive of the Poco garden club blog https://archive.is/u0gS0 12 May 2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.181.34 (talk) 00:50, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Royal British Legion article on the subject http://counties.britishlegion.org.uk/media/4399156/sandbag-november-2014.pdf 14 May 2015 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.181.34 (talk) 13:32, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

In case anyone is interested: here is a photo of the "Cenotaph of Sigismunda" in Munstead Wood, from a book written by Gertrude Jekyll (1900). --Judithcomm (talk) 16:16, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Removal of the word "dumbass" from first line

As I am not aware of any other meaning of "dumbass" aside from the common slang, I have to assume its placement within the first sentence was vandalism:

"A cenotaph is a tomb or a monument erected in honour of a person, group of people, dumbass, animals or groups of animals whose remains are elsewhere."

If I was wrong in removing the word, I'm sorry. I'm new to Wikipedia and I've hesitated to make edits before, but this seems clear-cut. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter NoCa (talk • contribs) 10:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

You took the correct action. 02 Decenber 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.108.68 (talk) 15:55, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Too Many Photos

This article has photos running down the right side long after the text has ended. Most wikipedia articles have a few photos just to exemplify the point of the article. It seems that someone felt the need to include photos of every Cenotaph they could think of here, and it seems excessive. I don't know whether that violates some policy, and it's not necessarily "inaccurate", so I'm hesitant to edit.fpotter (talk) 15:49, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Centotaph?

Ken-to-taph?

Sen-to-taph? Throckmorton Guildersleeve (talk) 16:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I assume you mean Cenotaph and I would have said - Sen-o-taph. Keith D (talk) 19:31, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

DOH you are right. The first rule to understanding pronunciation is to learn how to spell it correctly. Mea culpa. Throckmorton Guildersleeve (talk) 17:30, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Other Cenotaphs in the UK

Mention is made of the cenotaphs in London and Belfast, but how about the others dotted around the UK. There's a monument in Aberdare town centre (see here for a Google Street View) for example, known locally as the Cenotaph, presumably there are more elsewhere. Are they actually classed as cenotaphs? Mspritch (talk) 11:09, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I added a one-line introduction, but without a reliable source (not Google maps), I don't want to add anything more specific. Besides listing a few towns' names, I wouldn't want to go into too much detail about the other cenotaphs anyway. The UK section is already one of the largest, and it's best not to give undue weight to any one geographical area without good reason. If you find a reliable source (see Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources), and you don't want to edit the article yourself, bring it up and list it here, and I'm sure an editor will be happy to add it. Boneyard90 (talk) 13:07, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Other Cenotaphs in India

This article does make passing mention of the Tomb of I'timād-ud-Daulah, Humayun's Tomb in Delhi, and the Taj Mahal. But are these cenotaphs in the strict sense of the word, or are they actual burial places? And what about Jaswant Thada? Shouldn't these four monuments be included in the Regional section? Joe Gatt (talk) 15:51, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

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Tomb of the Unknown Soldier

Why is there no mention of what is perhaps the most famous and well-documented cenotaph in the world? As a matter of encyclopedic integrity, I find this disturbing. As a matter of national pride, I find it insulting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.4.56.188 (talk) 15:04, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

It's linked in the "See also" section, your personal feelings and national pride are entirely irrelevant and not something which is worth mentioning on any talkpage.★Trekker (talk) 17:11, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

cenotaphs vs. other monuments

Always love reading about this sort of thing. I got to wondering... I live close to Gettysburg and visit the battlefield often. There are, literally, 100s of monuments to individuals and groups who are not buried at that spot. Just wondering what distinguishes these from actual cenotaphs. Is it simply a matter of original purpose...that they were meant to honor or even memorialize, but not necessarily to stand in as a funerary marker? PurpleChez (talk) 14:38, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Good point. 2001:171B:2273:1D71:15FE:8BE6:41C2:C99D (talk) 07:35, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Armenia in Europe?

Certainly, as a Christian country with a long history, some of it (under the name Cilicia) holding sway in the European-dominated Crusades, Armenia has certainly exerted some influence upon European matters; but by what stretch of the imagination is Armenia physically located inside the bounds of Europe? Nuttyskin (talk) 23:37, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Maya Lin

Made a cenotaph, or not? 2001:171B:2273:1D71:15FE:8BE6:41C2:C99D (talk) 07:33, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Internet Explorer monument

https://frontpagereader.com/greeceeng/viral-header-for-internet-explorer-it-was-good-for-downloading-other-browsers/

Should the above-mentioned monument be included in the Asian section of the article? Since it was software, therefore no body is involved.

2401:7400:4007:520B:E716:B825:6A22:A062 (talk) 13:04, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Church of the Holy Sepulchre

As the purported site of the Tomb of Jesus, the Church meets the definition of a cenotaph as an empty tomb for a person who has since been disinterred, but I imagine it would be a stretch to include in the article.

Eh, I'll put a wick in See Also. 2001:56A:FB4D:5200:B62E:99FF:FEA3:D19A (talk) 23:30, 13 March 2023 (UTC)