Talk:Cervelat

Ice

The article has always said:

• The Swiss variety, however, is a cooked sausage made of ten parts minced beef, bacon and pork rind, and eight parts ice.

Ice sausage? It sounds more like a slurry. As a guess, should it say "rice"? -Will Beback 07:53, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

So. Let's see: On the German wikipedia, the same is repeated. Now of all wikipedias one would expect de to have accurate articles on sausages. These are important matters. But maybe this error slipped in and, unnoticed, was translated? We must resort to google.

The website http://www.sf.tv/sf1/kassensturz/sendung/beitrag.php?beitragid=805 , which is that of a (actually the) swiss consumer's organisation, mentions the composition of a Cervelat. They say it contains "viel Eis". Other websites - obtained by googling "cervelat rezept" or "cervelat inhalt" - confirm this. Ice is, it seems, there to bind the other ingredients.

Rice? Rice sausage? Perish the thought

Also, Blockwurst is also sold as cervelat. Blockwurst is a sausage more like salami. Mrschwen (talk) 02:32, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Garlic

In Belgium, the cervela or cervelat is a garlic sausage (which is in Dutch language lookworst, the official term for the colloquially and commonly named cervela). It's porc but I am not certain whether beef goes in as well. The skin used to be clear red coloured and this artificial coloration soaked into the outer millimetres of meat. The colour became forbidden because of an unhealthy ingredient and the cervela became ordinary brownish. Nowadays one finds both brown and (now by different pigments) red cervelas. It is usually eaten cold, with bread or as accompaniment to French fried potatoes at a street stall. The latter may also serve it deep-fried (which was very unusual until about 40 years ago. Which relation does this cervela[t] have to the topic of this article? — SomeHuman 17 Apr2007 22:41 (UTC) Please refer to the Dutch wikipedia entry Cervelaat. nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervelaat. In the Netherlands also Cervelaat is a popular sausage. G.Albert, Switzerland —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.55.208.101 (talk) 22:50, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

MUSCOVITE REPORTING IN. Here in Moscow, "servelat" word refers to this very type of sausage, unlike the Swiss variant of tiny "wieners". Our сервелат is also eaten cold with bread. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1370:81A2:44EB:7021:6CE4:68C6:3C7E (talk) 14:14, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Regional variants or distinct subjects?

Your edits to this article are problematic. You've put a disambiguation at the top of the page that says "this article is about the Swiss sausage". But as the article notes, Cervelas are part of Alsace tradition. Last I checked, Alsace is French? Furthermore, you've cut out all the Cervelas de Lyon content. But what evidence have you that this type of cervela is unrelated to the other types? You seem to be editing from a rather nationalistic point of view. In fact, cervelas seem to come in a variety of types and seems to vary by region and historically. I am not an expert on the subject so perhaps a wider audience should be brought in. Still, I think your edits arent' constructive. Candleabracadabra (talk) 15:14, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Hm, it just seems to me that Cervelat and Cervelas de Lyon are two completely different sausages that share nothing but a name. As they are different topics, they should be treated on different pages. Whether to distinguish them in hatnotes as "Swiss" or "French" is a different matter and can be discussed, it's just that these are the countries the sausages are now associated with. I'm copying this to Talk:Cervelat, can we continue the discussion there?  Sandstein  15:21, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

To address these concerns, I've now changed the hatnote to:

This page is about the sausage popular in Switzerland. For the sausage from Lyon, see Cervelas de Lyon.

 Sandstein  15:24, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure how your change addresses the problem? You seem to want the entire article to be about the swiss version of the sausage with which you are familiar. But the problem is that the various names seem to refer to a variety of related sausages that are not entirely similar. Some are raw (cured/ smoked). Some are cooked. Historically they used brain although now they don't. I don't think splitting off any version of the sausage that doesn't conform to you swiss version is appropriate. In fact, a better solution might be to split off the uniquely swiss version so that you can write it up as you see fit and let this aritcle deal with the broader subject. Nationalism, unfortunately, often infects food articles. But it's important to be objective and inclusive in covering this subject. I don't think there is any uniquely swiss claim to the subject addressed in this article and in fact when it was originally created it was mostly aabout the German variety of sausage coverd here. Candleabracadabra (talk) 15:47, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Sandstein, would you consider creating a Swiss cervela article? It does seem to have some significant differences from the other types. Otherwise I think all the varieties should be covered here? I can't see how only one nation's version should dominate. Candleabracadabra (talk) 16:52, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

If there are several notable varieties of cervela(t/s), then we should have articles on all of them. But are there? I'm no sausage expert either. Do you have sources we can use for this?

I don't think we need to focus on nationality; the Cervelas described here happens to be most popular in Switzerland but is also made elsewhere, as the article notes. We should focus on the ... sausage qua sausage, that is, are there notable variations in recipe and cultural importance?

By the way, I'm not sure a particular "German" variety of cervelat exists. The images you added are of the sausage that is (also) eaten in Switzerland, and were actually uploaded by a Swiss editor, so I'm not sure why you would label them as "German". I've corrected that.  Sandstein  18:17, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

The image you removed showed a rather different sausage being fried in a "sausage pan". It should be restored. Also, I'm sure you are aware that there are German-Swiss and French-Swiss. So the term German can refer to language and culture as well as nationality. Perhaps some clarification was needed instead of wholesale removal? The "Swiss" version is cooked. The other version are not. That's quite a significant difference. The color also looks different. Again, I think you need to stop trying to impose your version of the sausage on the rest of Europe. If you want an article exclusively on the Swiss variant you are most welcome to create one. But please don't violate Wikipedia's policies to impose your preferrences and familiarity on a subject that is used more widely. Candleabracadabra (talk) 17:42, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

I think we can usefully collaborate on this article without assuming that the other is working based on some prejudice or stereotype - I'm quite happy to have this article cover any version of Cervelas if there are sources for them. What's unclear to me right now is whether this article should cover the "generic" cervelas (if there is such a thing?) and its variants, or whether the variants are distinct enough to merit separate articles, and this should be a disambiguation page. What do you think?  Sandstein  19:24, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, I would think there has to be an article covering the broader subject. Whether anyone wishes to split off the regional specialties is really up to them. I think the usual practice is that unless there is more to add, covering a subject in a combined article gets the job done. If the coverage of a type of cervelat grew cumbersome or overwhelming, I think that would be the time to cover it generally here and in detail elsewhere.

As Wikipedia has gone this long without having individual articles on the regional specialties, I don't see a need to break them out. It's only now that some of them are covered (here). As long as they are covered and there are appropriate redirects, I think it can actually be quite useful to understand them in a broader context.

It can get confusing when versions are quite different (boiled v. smoked v. cured) but that happens in cuisine. As I have stated previously, I recognize that the Swiss version is a major subject of national pride so I have no objection to an article focused solely on that subject. But I still think you may run into trouble because based on what I've seen it looks to me like the Swiss-French variant is a bit different from the Swiss-German variant. One seems to be more like a hotdog (ie. precooked) while the other seems more like a summer sausage (smoked, cured and maybe poached/ boiled). You might be in a better position to flesh out whether this is bright line difference? The "Swiss-French" version also seems to be pinker than the other. If there were a definitive source covering the subject that would be helpful. But what coverage I've seen seems to be spotty and there seems to be a good deal of overlap.

I noticed that in France also, it looks like the area with German influence has a rather different version from the French type in Lyon. Why this occured and how the splits happened I don't know. I'm not even convinced for sure that the name is from the word for "brain" but I haven't seen if there are sources for previous assertions on it coming from veal or some such that may have once been used. I did think it was interesting that on Wikipedia Commons there is an image of a device that when the cover is taken off it looks like a brain and it goes by the Cervela name, so I guess it's as good an explanation as any. :) Candleabracadabra (talk) 19:44, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

• I am not completely satisfied with sectioning this article by "German" "Swiss" etc. because there seems to be culinary overlap over national borders although there do seem to be some culinary fault lines along linguistic and cultural lines. Is there a better way to title the subsections and address these distinctions? Candleabracadabra (talk) 19:47, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
• Perhaps Schofför and/or others can help make sure we are getting this right? I am welcome for input and assistance with schüblig as well. For example, what I'll refer to as the German-style cervelat, made using ice? And is it smoked or boiled? Sold "raw" but cooked before its eaten? Is the smoking and curing enough to make the pork safe? The sources seem to be all over the place. Candleabracadabra (talk) 20:12, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that in German Wikipedia there are two articles de:Cervelat (linked to this article - Swiss, cooked) and de:Zervelatwurst (German, raw). The second article claims that Zervelatwurst has nothing to do with Cervelat. Isheden (talk) 07:19, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

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needs a Russian article link

Needs a link to Russian article on "сервелат". 109.252.66.34 (talk) 14:10, 5 February 2023 (UTC)