Talk:Champon

Definition

This definition is from our about page, but it is a general definition. Not sure how to do the notation on this... also don't know if this is a valid article... Joi 08:43, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Is the disambugation for "Mongrel" really appropriate in this page? I've taken it off, but if someone else believes that it should be there, please feel free to put it back.

Equivalent Dish section

The Korean people I know consider their Jjamppong to be of Chinese origin. It's usually served in Korean-style-Chinese restaurants, alongside Jajangmyeon (which is derived from the Chinese dish Zhàjiàng miàn).

There's no source given for the last paragraph, just a link to Talk:Korean cuisine#chao ma mian which only confuses things further. Chinese think it's Korean, Koreans think it's Chinese, the Korean name is derived from Japanese, the Japanese name is derived from Malay, the Japanese say they invented it, the Okinawans have a different dish (in the same spirit) with the same name. Can anyone keep this straight? — AKADriver ☎ 18:58, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The time of Chinese immigration to Japan and Korea at late 19C is key to understand the origin of this dish. So we all understand this dish came from China. Chinese at Nagasaki created Japanese version of Champon noodle which is more like a ramen. and Chinse at Korea (especially Inchon) created Korean version as well but they made it hot with red pepper, red pepper oil and Duban source. And for next, Japanese invaded Korea at early 20C. At that time, Japanese culture and language impact on Korea a lot. So Japanse and Korean share same word for that noodle. Actually taste of Korean Chinese Champon is quite different from Nagasaki Champon. --Alf 12:09, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Confused origins

The first sentences say it derives from China, and then that it has a partially Chinese origin, having been invented in Nagasaki by a Chinese restaurant owner. The second section seems to indicate that Nagasaki-style champon is a different food, with strong Korean influences. So, which is it? Is it a Chinese dish, a Chinese-influenced dish from Nagasaki, a Korean-influenced dish from Nagasaki, or a Korean dish? LordAmeth 14:54, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Etymology

Is this word related to Chanpurū? Badagnani 02:34, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

No. --KawaiiCafé ◯⁀ ‿‿ ⁀◯ (☏) 06:48, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

u sure about that?

while no one associates the dishes together in the here and now, i do believe that the terms are linked way back...similar to "sherbet" and "sorbet" in english, say. "cha" and "chan" appear in both langs in various terms for mixture or chaos (japanese "gocha-gocha", for starters).

i'm more confused by the mention of okinawa "rice champon" to begin with -- i have never seen this. are we sure the pic there is not, in fact, for champloo over rice?66.30.47.138 (talk) 21:48, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

The Japanese term chanpon appears to derive from Chinese, and is not related to the Okinawan-sourced Japanese term chanpurū, which in turn is from Indonesian / Malaysian campur. See also the respective Wiktionary entries: wikt:ちゃんぽん, wikt:チャンプルー.

It might be that the term campur in turn derives from the same Chinese roots as champon, but I have not yet seen any source that makes this connection. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 20:39, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

I think adding the alcoholic drink reference is puerile (perhaps a younger contributor new to the concept of mixed alcoholic drinks) and not relevant; if others agree please strike that part Dudshan (talk) 01:28, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Merge discussion

Chanpon seems to be a pared-down version of the article, focusing on the colloquial use not related to food (which is covered some in this article). I think having both will likely be too confusing, and think they'd be better combined into one article. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 04:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Please indicate your Merge or Don't Merge opinion below, and include your reasoning as well. Remember, this is a discussion, not a vote. Thanks! ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 04:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

• Merge per my reasoning above. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 04:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
• Merge or Redirect Chanpon to Champon. The former concentrates on a neologism; the latter has a fuller discussion of the Japanese dish. Fg2 (talk) 05:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
• Merge, but isn't chanpon the correct romanization according to MOS:JP? I don't think champon qualifies for the "official spelling" exception. Google results are inconclusive (55k vs 86k), but champon is also a common French name and only 5 out of the first 20 hits seem to talk about the dish. Jpatokal (talk) 05:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree about the spelling. Maybe it's better to delete Chanpon and rename Champon using that spelling? Fg2 (talk) 06:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
    • Let's deal with merging first, then the title once that's done. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 17:30, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
• Redirect or Merge "Chanpon" into "Champon", since the bulk of the current "Chanpon" article can be abbreviated or omitted. I won't specify whether to use "Champon" or "Chanpon" as the article title, since either would be fine. The article should, however, note that the Yahoo Japan/Daijisen dictionary entry for ちゃんぽん suggests a Chinese etymology of 攙和. (The dictionary fails to indicate which Chinese dialect is relevant, but I'm guessing it's NOT Mandarin).--Endroit (talk) 17:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Jjamppong

Nagasaki style Champon is similar to a Korean dish called Champong or Jjamppong (짬뽕) and a Shandong, China dish called chao ma mian (山東炒碼麵). The Shandong version tends to be the most spicy. Due to the proximity of these locations, the three dishes most likely share the same origin.

This sentence has several problematic issues, so I delete the mention about shandong, China. First of all, Korean "jjamppong" is very different from nagasaki style champon. The ingredient for broth is made with seafood and chicken bone unlike pork soup used in Japanese champon. A raw egg is not topped on the noodle soup but chili pepper is included in jjamppong. I don't know Shandong really has chao ma mian, but according to Korean wikipedia, the name is a neologism made with hanja because the creators were Chinese. I think Shandong may have a similar dish but I doubt the name is chao ma mia.--Appletrees (talk) 18:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, they are basically variations of the same food developed by overseas Chinese communities in Nagasaki and Inchon, presumably from the same basic ideas--noodles in seafood broth, developed around the same time and probably drawing inspirations from each other (thus the same name, except for different romanizations), catering to different tastes of Japanese and Koreans. To keep them completely separate seems silly to me. It'd seem much more natural if the entries are merged. 2605:E000:1521:C21A:F946:E707:986B:34EA (talk) 21:00, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

What's jjambbong?

I'm perplexed by the description which give information of jjambbong as if it were a kind of Champon. I, and perhaps almost all of Japanese, think that jjambbong is not Champon. It should be explained on the other article.--Kiku b (talk) 03:22, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Jjambbong is said to be almost an identical dish with Champon by making almost identical ingredients except the fact that it contains spicy chili pepper or others (don't know) according to Korean Wikipedia. Jjambbong and Chmapon have the same pronunciation with each other but due to the different Romanization methods applied by the two countries, it is spelled as such. The etymology is also speculated to be originated in Japan by Chinese immigrants and then some of them moved to Korea. So the root is said to be same. You're welcome to create the derivative article, but I don't think the info about the variant should be taken out just because you are not well aware of it. See Zha jiang mian and Jajangmyeon. --Caspian blue 03:58, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Is there the source except Wikipedia?--Kiku b (talk) 13:20, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Here is an English source[1].--Caspian blue 17:50, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you so much. I'm going to move the description of Korean dish to jjambbong page. Explanation of similarities between Champon and jjambbong will be also included.--Kiku b (talk) 02:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

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TOC misalignment

Due to pictures being added into the initial description the TOC shows up centered for me and the sections is overall messy. I don't think the pictures belong into the description? Wouldn't it be better to have a gallery for them? Nakonana (talk) 16:25, 3 January 2021 (UTC)