Talk:Charles James Napier

Genealogy Edit

I reverted an edit by Ravenswing which removed a sentence stating that Lady Sarah Lennox was great-grandaughter of King Charles II. This is an assertion supported by her father's page: Charles Lennox, 2nd Duke of Richmond (which states"Charles Lennox, 2nd Duke of Richmond, 2nd Duke of Lennox, 2nd Duke of Aubigny, KG, KB, PC, FRS (18 May 1701, Goodwood, Sussex – 8 August 1750, Godalming, Surrey) was the son of Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond, and a grandson of King Charles II.", and by her grandfather's page, Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond (which states "Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond, 1st Duke of Lennox, 1st Duke of Aubigny (29 July 1672 – 27 May 1723) was the illegitimate son of Charles II of England and his mistress Louise de Kérouaille, Duchess of Portsmouth."), as well as by an external link from that page ( [1] ) and Charles_II_of_England#Issue and Descendants_of_Charles_II_of_England. This is fairly well-documented, I believe. If the question is one of legitimacy, that can be addressed in the article, but the blanking of verifiable facts is unhelpful. - LeeNapier (talk) 20:34, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Untitled

Regarding this quote; "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."

Where and when is he supposed to have made it? His time in the subcontinent was spent mostly in the west, and what is now Pakistan, as far as I can make out from his biography. It is not a region where sati is known in recent historic times, being mostly Muslim. Imc 18:21, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

The original (or at least earliest) source I can find is his brother William Francis Patrick Napier's History of the Administration of Scinde published 1851, which dates the incident to 1843. Full quote from the book is

"He also put down the practice of suttees, which however was rare in Scinde, by a process entirely characteristic. For judging the real cause of these immolations to be the profit derived by the priests, and hearing of an intended burning, he made it known that he would stop the sacrifice. The priests said it was a religious rite which must not be meddled with—that all nations had customs which should be respected and this was a very sacred one. The general affecting to be struck with the argument replied. "Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs \" No suttee took place then or afterwards." Ace-o-aces (talk) 17:18, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Whoever said it deserves +5 to awesome. 67.34.55.68

The quote is also attributed to him in a very good book on colonial wars called 'Queen Victoria's Little Wars by Byron Farwell. I added some more quotes on his general philosophy of war, since he fought many campaigns that were counter-insurgency in nature, and hence relevant to our times. A brilliant general in my opinion.

needs to include his time as governor of Kefalonia/Kefallinia/Cephalonia, Greece - MaikKef 01:14, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I see that Napier's time in Kefalonia is now included, but his job title there was Resident, not Governor. He was sent to Corfu in 1819 to work with Sir Thomas Maitland, the Governor of the Ionian Islands. In 1821 Maitland appointed Napier Resident of Kefalonia. (Each island had a Resident, reporting to the Governor.) Also, his interest in the cause of Greek independence was concurrent with his time in the Ionian Islands. Byron visited Kefalonia for a few months in 1823 and Napier conversed with him about the plight of the Greeks. Byron wanted Napier to take a leading part in the Greeks' rebellion against the Ottoman Empire and Napier was contacted by the London Greek Committee, but his terms for taking up the role were rejected by them. CurlingWisps (talk) 06:33, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Peccavi

It seems that Napier did not utter the famous line. It was a submission to Punch more than a year after the event, made up by Caroline Winkworth, a teenage schoolgirl. --Jumbo 07:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

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It is said that James Napier actually discovered Karachi and once at the beach he said: "O Karachi! You are the Jewel of the East". HOw much of this is true?202.163.100.62 11:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Peccavi - a citation that he *didn't* say it:
"'I Have Scinde': Flogging a Dead (White Male Orientalist) Horse," by Wendy Doniger - Journal of Asian Studies 58(4), 940-960, November 1999.
86.25.121.62 (talk) 09:21, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Early career

Article needs more information on his early career, particularly his involvement in the Peninsular Campaign. Drutt (talk) 23:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

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Napier on sati, etc

@Soham321: The Napier quote is still in the article. I have reworded it to better match the source. It does not fit in biography section, is better as a separate section just like "Views on subduing insurgencies". Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:34, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

@Ace-o-aces2:: Would you please check the source and decide if "ascertained" or "judged" is supported? @Soham321 is edit warring over it. I see support for "judging" in the third line 2nd para, middle of page 35. I also intend to add a section on slavery from the same source, as it is as due as the section on sati. Please double check my wording if and when you have time, and refine/add where appropriate. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 01:58, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

The source (which is available online, BTW, just follow the link https://books.google.com/books?id=d84BAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA35#v=onepage&q&f=false) actually uses the word "judging", like you say. There's not much else to go on. That paragraph is the only mention of sati in the entire two volume account of Napier's time in Scinde. Ace-o-aces2 (talk) 18:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

@Ace-o-aces2: Thank you for the crosscheck. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 20:13, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Parole

In the Section Peninsular war, we currently have:

"After an agreement between Ney and Napier, the latter was released on a convalescence leave at home for three months, under parole to return to Ney's quarters wherever he was on the first of July 1809.^[5] ¶Napier volunteered to return to the Iberian Peninsula in 1810 to fight again. . . . ."

The paragraph break elides a ≥9-months gap during which, by the terms of his parole, Napier should have returned to captivity, and seems to imply that he did not. Is it possible to clarify what did in fact happen in this period? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.219.32.223 (talk) 11:53, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes I came to this talk page to ask the same question. Breaking parole was (AFAIK) a very serious offense in those days and gentlemen simply did not do it. (Ninety years later, Churchill was accused, wrongly, of breaking his parole during the Boer War and that accusation was much used by his political opponents.)Cross Reference (talk) 18:16, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Quotes

@PaulGS: See WP:QUOTEFARM and User:Sitush/CasteSources#Writings of British Raj administrators instead of frequently edit warring to restore the section. desmay (talk) 18:29, 1 May 2021 (UTC)