Talk:Charles Lwanga

Homosexual unions?

"The ire of the king was particularly inflamed against the Christians because they refused to accede to demands to participate in homosexual unions."

Does anyone have any evidence for the above claim?

Sofhaderet 18:06, 25 December 2006 (UTC)Sofhaderet

Retired the bit about "homosexual acts" since there's no solid evidence for it. Lunamaria 21:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Colonialism

I reverted the recent change that suggested there was a neutrality issue. I'm prepared to accept that there might be, but thought it helpful first if we could collectively clarify the issues. One interpretation is clearly that Mwanga wanted to have sex with the pages and then when they refused, out of pique he had them all killed. I suppose that's possible. But a more convincing narrative (supported by the sources) in my view suggests this was a question of authority. Christian missionaries had baptised the pages. Mwanga saw this is a threat to his authority and a risk of colonialisation. Thus he decided to make an example of the pages. The first theory based around pique seems a bit one dimensional.Contaldo80 (talk) 09:27, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Looks mostly good, but I edited the wording the passage a bit for wording and style. Does that source even mention the sex bit? It seems altogether more likely that the executions were a power struggle.Cúchullain ^t/c 13:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Cúchullain, happy with your changes. Yes, agree that the key aspect looks to be an internal power struggle. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:26, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

The main wording that seems problematic is "It is also likely", since that's a conclusion, and I can't read the source myself to check that since it's not available online. The executions being a question of authority seems plausible to me, and it's possible the sex issue (which could also fit in with the authority issue) might be one reason, if only a minor one. Maybe the paragraph could be reworded to put the new material first. PaulGS (talk) 04:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

You should be able to access the Assa Okoth source online if you search via googlebooks. Contaldo80 (talk) 09:57, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I checked it out (btw, Contaldo, in the future please include page numbers. I've added them here). It doesn't mention Charles Lwanga specifically and only obliquely mentions the sex issues, saying that Mwanga's proclivities were a point of conflict between him and the Christians and missionaries, not that the pages' refusal to have sex with him led him to execute Christians. I don't know that this really belongs in this article; it may be more appropriate at Uganda Martyrs.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I must get better at including page numbers. Apologies for that. I'm also reluctant to have too much detail on Mwanga in this article, but I can't see how we can completely leave him out seeing as his actions/views were so central to the death of Lwanga. But agree that we should probably look to put something similar into the Uganda Martyrs article Contaldo80 (talk) 14:39, 27 January 2012 (UTC)