Talk:Charlie Haas/GA1

GA Review

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Review will begin within 24 hours. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 08:57, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Quick-fail assessment

1. The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability. - Obviously fine
2. The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. -
3. There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including {{cleanup}}, {{wikify}}, {{NPOV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{fact}}, {{clarifyme}}, or similar tags. -
4. The article is or has been the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars. - Looks like somewhat regular vandalism needs to be reverted...somewhat regularly, but that's the case with pretty much any article with eyes on it.
5. The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint. - N/A, further updates obviously necessary as the man's career progresses, but that's neither "rapidly unfolding" nor does it have a "definite endpoint."

Proceeding with further review. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 03:30, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality: Well done Not striking the 'well done,' there just has to be some text next to the {{GAList/check}} for it to strike the minus :P

   • Do the CZW shows themselves use the substandard capitalization Climbing The Ladder and Caged To The End?

   • Yes, normally they do. Though they aren't supposed to be in italics since they weren't tv shows. They were just plain live events, which the MoS says nothing about.

   • It really reads quite strangely to instantly go from the Haas brothers winning championships to "Russ died." I think there should be a paragraph split there, and the topic sentence for Russ' death should begin with the date.

   • Well that is why we have a personnel life section. That mention is in the career section, so going more in depth would be leading away from the subject at hand.--WillC 22:12, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

   • The flow is still really awkward. Perhaps After [[Charlie Haas#Personal life|Russ' death]]... then? Or move the personal life section to earlier in the article? Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 22:53, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

   • Done.--WillC 23:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

   • He was later stripped of the title on January 29. Either say why, or if the reason is just kayfabe, this sentence probably doesn't need to be included at all.
     • Well the exact reason is unknown. But I did discover on the marginally reliable site Solie, who gets its information from books, magizines, and other promotions, that he was stripped of the title due to a contract loopole. Vague but the best we got at the moment.--WillC 23:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
   • Is Haas debuted [...] as a [[heel (professional wrestling)|villainous character]] standard usage in wrestler FA's and GA's? Not that I'm suggesting you should just use the jargon "heel," but I'd have been more expecting to see debuted as a heel, a villainous character. If this is normal usage on promoted articles, I'm more than willing to accede to consensus, but it sticks out as odd to me. Occurs one other time, too, and also [[feud (professional wrestling)|scripted rivalry]]. "Scripted rivalry" especially seems odd to me, because it seems to be the only time the fact that wrestling is scripted is alluded to. Following this model, oughtn't "angle" be "storyline" or something like that.
     • It goes both ways. There was a long discussion on trying to show wrestling is more scripted. Feud is alright to use since it is an universal term through various subjects. A user could write it as "heel, villainous character" or just "villainous character".--WillC 23:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

   I've fixed all the consistency issues I believe, though I may have missed one or two. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • but never won the titles Is title accepted as a synonym for "belt"? If not, this probably shouldn't be plural.

   Replaced with championship. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • and began a feud for the JAPW Heavyweight Championship with Jay Lethal First time the word "feud" appears in the text. This is another reason why "entered a feud, a scripted rivalry" (or whatever wording) might be better than [[feud (professional wrestling)|scripted rivalry]], because when the first usage of jargon is hidden in a piped wikilink, it doesn't help a reader unfamiliar with the context-specific usage of the term search for its possible explanation elsewhere in the article (which is certainly something I do when reading articles).

   Fixed. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • As a result of the legitimate accident, Haas began a scripted rivalry with Garcia's onetime storyline love interest Viscera. The use of scripted rivalry here contrasts with feud above. I think it should probably be one or the other, and not both.

   Fixed. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • she stated to the both of them that she wanted to be "just friends". "the both of them" sounds substandard.

   Fixed. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • After that, Viscera and Haas became a tag team, competing on both Raw and Heat until splitting in December 2006. Any reason why? (not exactly a prose issue, but I don't know where else to put it). No huge deal if not.

   I'd assume because they decided to reform the World's Greatest Tag Team, but I can't find a source for that so it's not in the article. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • They then started a scripted rivalry with Cryme Tyme.[48][49] They continued to compete on Raw through the start of 2007, facing teams including John Cena and Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair and Carlito.[50][51] In mid-2007, The World's Greatest Tag Team feuded briefly with the Hardy Boyz in storyline I think I've made my point on this one :P

   Fixed. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • they challenged the Hardys for the World Tag Team Championship in a ladder match but came up short. I personally don't mind them, but non-formal phrases like "came up short" need to be avoided in encyclopedic writing. Also, is "Hardys" used as a team name here? It's listed as one on the article Hardy Boyz, and there's also a subsection in that article called "The Hardys (2006–2007)" Though of course, "Hardys" is just a plural word for multiple people with that name. But if it's supposed to be their team name, In mid-2007, The World's Greatest Tag Team feuded briefly with the Hardy Boyz in storyline should be revised.

   Yep, it should have been "The Hardys" - that's the name they used in 2007. I've fixed it accordingly. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • Now he truned face because drew mycintire attack him ????? Reverted out.

   B. MOS compliance: Mostly okay. Few things:

   • Sure are a lot of redlinks in the "Independent circuit" section. Are they really all likely future articles?

   I'm not sure - it'd be hard to say without doing some research really. I've removed them anyway, because I simply don't have time to research it right now. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • Why is a picture from 2007 used in the "World Wrestling Entertainment (2002–2005)" section? It wouldn't be such a big deal if Benjamin weren't blond and they weren't entering a ring with red ropes.

   To show The World's Greatest Tag Team - we don't have a good photo of the two of them together before 2007 unforunately. I've replaced it with File:Hassricojackie.jpg per your suggestion. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   I don't think you necessarily need one. It might help the article The World's Greatest Tag Team, but for this one, the picture with Haas after the "hot tag" is just about perfect, and File:Hassricojackie.jpg better illustrates 2002-2005 in Haas' career than a picture from 2007 does. File:Charliehass.jpg looks like it may have been cropped from something, so is it possible Benjamin's in that one? Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 02:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

   • Why does File:Hassricojackie.jpg occur in the "In wrestling" section? Doesn't really illustrate anything from that section. I think it would make a lot more sense in the "World Wrestling Entertainment (2002–2005)" section in place of the blond Benjamin pic.

   I placed it there because it shows Miss Jackie, his manager - and so tied in with the Managers section. I've moved it up per your suggestion. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   I think it's more suitable here, as it illustrates his valet and his tag team partner, both mentioned in the "World Wrestling Entertainment (2002–2005)" section, while only the valet is mentioned in the lower section. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 02:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

   • "Managers" list in this same section - covered by article prose, and unlike his wrestling moves, it's not necessary to do it in list form to avoid being tedious in prose. Suggest removal unless there's consensus behind it.
     • Consensus is to include it. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 22:36, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources: Obviously not a problem.

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary: Awful lot of sources come straight from the wrestling companies where Haas worked. Obviously it would be inane of me to ask for a source attesting to the significance of WWE events, but something like source #5, http://www.czwrestling.com/archives/1999.html , can only source that something happened, not that it was in any way significant. While I'm not going to fail the article for this, it's something I feel bears mentioning.

   This is a hard one. Non-WWE or TNA events/promotions tend not to get that much press. For the indy stuff (like CZW) I do try to limit it to significant stuff like debuting in a promotion, winning a championship, etc, anyway. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   I understand. Obviously you can't just not include that period of time like it didn't happen. I suppose it's rather like minor league baseball, which gets mentioned in bios of recent MLB players. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 02:57, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

   C. No original research: good

   • This article seems to say that the "World's Greatest Tag Team" moniker came about after they'd lost the WWE Tag Team Championship the second time - Haas and Benjamin regained the championship from Guerrero and Tajiri on the July 3 episode of SmackDown, but lost it to the reformed Los Guerreros on September 18.[16] The duo then dubbed themselves The World's Greatest Tag Team, although announcers made sure to add "Self Proclaimed" to the name, before being separated when Benjamin was moved to the Raw brand as part of the 2004 Draft Lottery.[17] But the The World's Greatest Tag Team article says Soon after the breakup, Benjamin and Haas referred to themselves as The Best Damn Tag Team Period and then The Self-Proclaimed World's Greatest Tag Team, or The World's Greatest Tag Team for short.[1] They went on to recapture the WWE Tag Team Championship from Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri on July 3. which presents a different time frame.

   Good catch. :) I never even noticed that. Fixed. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

   • As a result of the legitimate accident, Haas began a scripted rivalry with Garcia's onetime storyline love interest Viscera. Source as to the legitimacy of the accident? I'd hardly say wwe.com could accepted as reliable for it. If there isn't one, that's not a big deal, it's hardly significant whether the accident was legitimate or not.

   Between the two sources I've added, this should be covered. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused: Just one thing

   • Haas lost a match to Luther Reigns at the Great American Bash. Is this of any particular significance?
4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales: Images are all free use, though, as stated, I'm not sure about the exact usage of some of them.

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions: Good Great captions. Just wanted to emphasize that the caption to File:Charlie-Haas,-RLA-Melb-10.11.2007.jpg is pretty much exactly what WP:CAPTION is trying to get.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail: There's work yet to be done, but I think it can get there. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 21:22, 20 September 2009 (UTC) Well done. Alex finds herself awake at night _{(Talk · What keeps her up)} 02:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

As a friend of NiciVampireHeart, the nominator, I'll help take care of some of the problems since she has been pretty busy lately while she is not online.--WillC 21:35, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Will, but that's not necessary. I'll be able to get to these myself tomorrow evening as I expect to have a bit of free time. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 22:36, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Okay, just saw this. Okay, good to hear.--WillC 23:45, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Alrighty, I think I got everything. Thanks so much for the review. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the review and the pass. I really appreciate it. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 11:19, 26 September 2009 (UTC)