Talk:Chartered College of Teaching

College membership

It is interest to note, that unlike the earlier College of Preceptors which remained rather small, the College of Teachers now has a membership of 35,000 students and members. The accrediting branch of the College has centers in numerous countries including the United States. Royalhistorian (talk) 09:05, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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Two societies with similar (or same) name

This page is about an old extinct society operating until 1923. It was not well known and well documented. There is a new societ with a similar name, which claims to be the same society. It is run by "Prof. Carl Edwin Lindgren, DEd, FWAAS, FRAI, FRSA". There appears to be no linkage between the two and there was no operation for over 50 years between 1923 and the time when the new society started its operation. Until the link is proven I suggest that "Prof. Carl Edwin Lindgren, DEd, FWAAS, FRAI, FRSA" opens a new wiki page for his society. It is also best that the matters are first resolved here on the talk page. Topjur01 (talk) 20:23, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

College of Teachers

The statement " It is not to be mixed with an organisation called College of Teachers, which currently operates in the UK" is confusing.

According to the website of the College of Teachers, the College of Preceptors was not wound up in 1923, and changed its name to the College of Teachers in 1998.

However, this should not be confused with the entirely different Chartered College of Teachers, which was created by Royal Charter in 2017.

See https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bloomsbury-project/institutions/college_preceptors.htm and https://chartered.college/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.242.47 (talk) 18:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

This page is about an old extinct society operating until 1923. It was not well known and well documented. There is a new society with a similar name, which claims to be the same society. It is run by "Prof. Carl Edwin Lindgren, DEd, FWAAS, FRAI, FRSA". There appears to be no linkage between the two and there was no operation for over 50 years between 1923 and the time when the new society started its operation. Until the link is proven I suggest that "Prof. Carl Edwin Lindgren, DEd, FWAAS, FRAI, FRSA" opens a new wiki page for his society. It is also best that the matters are first resolved here on the talk page. Topjur01 (talk) 16:42, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi Topjur01, I had provided only relevant information pertaining to this article page. The college of Preceptors had several changes throughout its history. See this Royal Charter :https://chartered.college/our-royal-charter. The College of Preceptors had a name change by a Supplemental Charter to the College of Teachers in 1998. It was the same Institution. It then applied for an additional Supplemental Charter to change its name to The Chartered College of Teaching. It was a process of Charter revision (completed in 2016) and is thus a progressive development of the College of Preceptors and so I believe that it is entirely relevant to include this information. Although the Charter of 1849 and the Supplemental Charter was revoked, it is nonetheless a "perpetual succession" of the College of Preceptors. It will not be confusing if a clear line and distinction is made with appropriate referencing. I will not revert nor make any changes and leave it to you and any other interested editors of this article to consider the merits of the information provided. Audit Guy (talk) 03:23, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

@Topjur01: it seems to me that this page should be moved to the institution's current name, Chartered College of Teaching, and brought up to date. Given the evidence of the citations above, especially https://chartered.college/our-royal-charter , the onus is on you to demonstrate that the college was inactive after 1923; what evidence do you have for that statement? The IoE citation states, "The College continues to provide in-service qualifications for teachers." – Fayenatic London 06:59, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

It seems that there is no link between the old organizations, active until 1923, and new organizations, started around 1989 by "Prof. Carl Edwin Lindgren, DEd, FWAAS, FRAI, FRSA". There is an effort by two or three Wikipedia usernames, and by Mr. Lindgren to establish some link, but I cannot see it. I suggest that we keep this page for the old organization. I agree with Fayenatic and with Audit Guy that there can be a page on the new organization. Therefore I suggest that you make a separate page for the new organization. There is no reason to have both in the same page because they are not linked as much as you wish to show some link. It looks like someone wants to improve image by showing tradition where there is none.Topjur01 (talk) 11:00, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

@Topjur01, you seem to be ignoring the referenced information that clearly shows that the College of Preceptors changed its name to the College of Teachers and eventually is now known as the Chartered College of Teaching by Royal Charter. The College of Preceptors did not cease operation nor was it inactive after 1923. It changed its name by Supplemental Charter. See also this additional information from the directory listing of British Qualifications : [1] which also states the same thing. This has nothing whatsoever to do with any so called Institution by Carl Edwin Lindgren which you are claiming. I am suggesting as does Fayenatic that it be moved to the institution's current name, Chartered College of Teaching and brought up to date. Alternatively, for the time being, you revert to the previous version where all relevant information on this Institution is shown that indicates its current form. Audit Guy (talk) 12:56, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

@Topjur01: Citations from UCL[2] and IoE[3] referred to continuity of the College in London, UK, at least up to the 2010s. SecEd in 2015 referred to it as existing for 164 years.[4] I have asked you for evidence of closure in 1923 but you provide none; the College seems only to have ended one periodical in that year.

If TomHSimon (talk · contribs) is well-informed in this uncited edit,[5] the charter was transferred to a new body in 2016, independent of the IoE. That would match the change of address out of the IoE.

You seem to have inserted incorrect information of your own, "since 1846 and soon ceased its operations", in this uncited edit.[6]

This Lindgren that you refer to seems to be an American who trained in the London college in 1993 and returned to America;[7] fine, don't mention him in this article. Why do you bring him up at all? Is he involved in the London https://chartered.college ? He is not mentioned on that website.

The only decision to make is whether to move this page to Chartered College of Teaching, or to move it back to College of Teachers and just refer to the successor body on this page for now, unless and until it gains sufficient notability to have its own article. – Fayenatic London 13:26, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

I suggest that other Wikieditors look into it and decide on the link and on the notability of the old and of the new organisations. I invited them by opening a discussion here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:College_of_Preceptors#College_of_Teachers

Topjur01 (talk) 14:28, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

@Topjur01 (talk) - Here is additional information from the LGiU, an independent local government body. See this policy briefing paper to follow indications of the link between the college's change of names.[8]. FayenaticLondon - FYI. Audit Guy (talk) 06:05, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

• @Topjur01 (talk), As per the DRN consensus, hope you can assist to move the page to the current organisation's name i.e. Chartered College of Teaching and indicating its history to the College of Teachers (1998) and College of Preceptors (1849). DRN Discussion - [9]. Thanks. Audit Guy (talk) 04:45, 17 September 2018 (UTC)