Talk:Cheap at Half the Price/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Binksternet (talk) 00:46, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Review

• The album is by Frith, not by Frith of Henry Cow. There is no need for a mention of Henry Cow in the lead section.

  Fixed.

• This should not remain unexplained in the lead section: 'Frith's "style of music" '.

  Expanded on "style of music".

• There is a pipe link to Improvisation and another one to Musical improvisation, but I do not think the former applies to Frith. He is purely about musical improvisation.

  Fixed.

• This part of the sentence reads as gibberish: "...on which he turned his attention away from the intensities of Henry Cow." Such intensities have not been established in the text. Drop that bit or explain it.

  Expanded on "intensities of Henry Cow".

• Redundant wikilinks to Henry Cow, The Residents, Ralph Records, Gravity (Fred Frith album), Speechless (Fred Frith album), New York City, Multitrack recording, Sampling (music), Experimental music and Avant-rock. Trim them back to one instance each in the readable prose part of the article, not counting images, tables, lists and infoboxes. See WP:REPEATLINK.

  Fixed.

• Why is the word progressive in quotes here: 'Despite Frith's apparent departure from his previous "progressive" albums...'?

  "Progressive" was quoted because it is a very general term sometimes used to describe Frith's music, but for simplicity, I've removed the quotes.

• Because of "driving rhythm" in quotes, I would like to see a cite to this sentence: "Some Clouds Do" has a similar "driving rhythm" to Paul Sears' drumming on "What a Dilemma" on Gravity.

  The citation was at the end of the next sentence, which also had quotes from the same source. But I've added it to the end of the this sentence as well.

• What make and model of four-track recorder did he use? Does anyone know?

  The make and model is not listed in the album's liner notes, they just say "Recorded at home on a 4-track". None of the sources I've read say what the make and model is either.

• What use is it to the reader to be able to click on the Milkowski_1983 link and have it go nowhere? The article gives no clue who Milkowski is or what that reference might be. Personally, I was able to discover via Google that it refers to Bill Milkowski writing in Down Beat in 1983, but the article needs to have this made clear.

  Sorry, that was my mistake. I left off the reference. Fixed.

• I do not see the need for Brandon Wu's review to support the fact that Frith used backing bands. Wu and his self-published blog do not appear to be very notable, and the fact is already supported by Peter Marsh, BBC.

  Removed.

• Take a look at the cites as they appear to the reader, and check out the ones that have numbers out of sequence, such as [19][20][16] and [21][1]. All the cites should be in order of first appearance.

  Fixed.

• Beppe Colli, editor at the non-commercial web magazine Clouds and Clocks is given a whole paragraph. Why? What makes Colli so notable?

• There isn't anything special about Colli, I just thought he had some interesting things to say. I could cut back on his comments and merge them in with one of the other paragraphs, or I could leave out his comments altogether.

Okay, that's my review. I am putting the GAN on hold so that the points can be addressed. Binksternet (talk) 02:09, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Binksternet, thanks for reviewing my GA nom. I'll be attending to the points you raised over the next few days. --Bruce1ee^talk 14:49, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I've responded to all the points you listed above. When you get a chance please review my changes and the queries I've raised. Regarding Hekerui's comments below about the "Background" section, it is there to help the reader understand the type of music Frith was making before he made this album, which helps understand why Frith fans where initially disappointed with it. But you must tell me what you feel should happen to that section. --Bruce1ee^talk 15:05, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

About your improvements; good work, in general. I am still feeling lost about the description of Henry Cow's music being 'intense', a change from 'intensities'. Any music can be 'intense' for an aficionado. Me, I think Frith is intense. :D ... Something more descriptive is needed.

Regarding the presence of Beppe Colli, I do not see his notability, and the web magazine Clouds and Clocks is not mentioned elsewhere, by other media sources. When I Google "clouds and clocks", I get a 1965 lecture on rationality by Sir Karl Raimund Popper, and I get a children's book on encopresis, the soiling of pants. Similarly, Beppe Colli does not get mentioned elsewhere. The man and the website are not notable.

Applying the same criteria to Babyblaue Seiten and the German reviewer Achim Breiling, I find that Breiling is a medical researcher who has published papers about genes, proteins and cloning, and has written prog rock reviews for the New Gibraltar Encyclopedia of Music in addition to a bunch of them at Babyblaue. CDBaby lists Babyblaue Seiten as a source, and an article exists about that review site in the German Wikipedia: de:Babyblaue Seiten. It looks like Breiling in Babyblaue is somewhat more reliable a source than Colli in Clouds. Although Colli's observations are interesting, I cannot see keeping them. It's too bad, because he is the only reviewer who hinted at the CD having some loudness war characteristics, a step down from the dynamic spaciousness of the LP.

About the "bursts with" quote from van Peer, the word 'eradicates' was wrong. Van Peer wrote 'eradiates', which is not a word, but he may have intended this construction as a neologism. That, or he misspelled 'radiates'. In any event, I returned 'eradiates' to the article, and added a [sic] template. Binksternet (talk) 16:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I've removed the bit about Henry Cow's music being "intense" and merged that sentence with the next. I've also removed all of the Beppe Colli/Clouds and Clocks citations. Looking at your research into this website, I'm inclined to agree with you, it's not notable. Finally, thanks for fixing the van Peer quote. BTW according to Dictionary.com, "eradiate" means "to radiate", although a Google on that word suggests it's more of a medical term, so maybe the "sic" should remain. --Bruce1ee^talk 06:43, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay, we're done! Congratulations on your Good Article. Binksternet (talk) 12:39, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the pass, and for the thorough review – you picked up a lot of issues (and mistakes) I had missed. --Bruce1ee^talk 12:55, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Additional comment

Hi, I thought I'd stop by and leave additional comments.

1. What is the point of the section "Background"? It does not deal with a background regarding the album but is a summary of the article on Fred Frith. The main article already exists, this section is not about the album and therefore obsolete. It should be removed.
2. What makes Babyblaue Seiten (speaking German I checked the website and the German Wiki entry and see no evidence for it passing the criteria of WP:WEB) and Clouds and Clocks reliable sources?

Regards Hekerui (talk) 10:27, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Good points! Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 14:25, 10 April 2010 (UTC)