Talk:Chen Kugel
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False title that should be changed — edit request
editThe title "false claims of beheaded babies" is false itself and should be changed. It is false because it relys on a newspaper - "Haaretz" - who is known as radical left wing, and the claims are irrelevant, for example the "one baby in B'eeri" - there were many other places that were brutally attacked, so what proof is it that rely on one place? Dr. Kugel is an acclaimed pathologist, and he said what he saw. He is surely much more reliable than "Haaretz" newspaper.
So the false title "Israel–Hamas war and false claims of beheaded babies" should be changed to "Israel–Hamas war and Israeli newspaper accusations of false claims of beheaded babies", or at least should be changed to "Israel–Hamas war and accusations of false claims of beheaded babies". לידך, בלעדייך (talk) 00:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Haaretz is a reliable source, and the fact that no babies were beheaded is further backed by Le Monde, The Washington Post, The Intercept, CNN and other reliable sources, which in turn cite Israeli officials. So no, it is not a mere accusation, it's a well-established, confirmed fact that Dr. Chen Kugel's claim about seeing beheaded babies is false, and that is accurately reflected on the page. Raskolnikov.Rev (talk) 00:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The Haaretz article doesn't mention Dr. Kugel at all. It refers to report by media. The "40 beheaded babies" argument was never claimed by Dr Kugel, but by others. The edit in this article mix claims by others with Dr. Kugel. לידך, בלעדייך (talk) 01:46, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The page accurately notes with sources that Dr. Kugel claimed he saw beheaded babies on multiple occasions. It then accurately cites investigations from reliable sources concluding that any claims of beheaded babies, irrespective of the number, by any one, are false. Unless you have any reliable sources that contest this, it is not controversial and no edits are warranted to make it appear as such. Raskolnikov.Rev (talk) 02:02, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Haaretz deny a report about "40 beheaded babies", a claim claimed by others and not by Dr Kugel - to conclude that some of the beahded babies reports were false. But this number is important because Haatertz never said that ALL the reports were false, but SOME (like the 40 babies report). So it doesn't deny or refer to Dr. Kugel claims that he saw HEADLESS babies, and he said he can't be sure how it happened (if by RPG etc.). The sources don't deny there were headless babies, the sources says that some reports about beheaded babies were false, without refering to Dr. Kugel. So the title "false claims" supposedly made by Dr. Kugel is a lie. As i said, it mix reports by others with Dr. Kugel. לידך, בלעדייך (talk) 02:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- You are wrong. Both Haaretz and Le Monde, as well as the other sources I cited in my prior post, all explicitly conclude in their investigations that any claims of any beheaded babies are false. Raskolnikov.Rev (talk) 02:49, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not wrong. The article itself sais Dr. Kugel talked about HEADLESS babies: "seen the burnt, headless bodies of babies, although he could not say for certain whether they had been beheaded.". So if he could not say for certain, how come the title sais: "false claims of beheaded babies"? That's a measleading title, a lie. The sources talk about an action, while Dr. Kugel talked about what he saw, without being cetain what action led to the outcome (of babibes without head). לידך, בלעדייך (talk) 03:19, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- You are wrong. Both Haaretz and Le Monde, as well as the other sources I cited in my prior post, all explicitly conclude in their investigations that any claims of any beheaded babies are false. Raskolnikov.Rev (talk) 02:49, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Haaretz deny a report about "40 beheaded babies", a claim claimed by others and not by Dr Kugel - to conclude that some of the beahded babies reports were false. But this number is important because Haatertz never said that ALL the reports were false, but SOME (like the 40 babies report). So it doesn't deny or refer to Dr. Kugel claims that he saw HEADLESS babies, and he said he can't be sure how it happened (if by RPG etc.). The sources don't deny there were headless babies, the sources says that some reports about beheaded babies were false, without refering to Dr. Kugel. So the title "false claims" supposedly made by Dr. Kugel is a lie. As i said, it mix reports by others with Dr. Kugel. לידך, בלעדייך (talk) 02:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The page accurately notes with sources that Dr. Kugel claimed he saw beheaded babies on multiple occasions. It then accurately cites investigations from reliable sources concluding that any claims of beheaded babies, irrespective of the number, by any one, are false. Unless you have any reliable sources that contest this, it is not controversial and no edits are warranted to make it appear as such. Raskolnikov.Rev (talk) 02:02, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The Haaretz article doesn't mention Dr. Kugel at all. It refers to report by media. The "40 beheaded babies" argument was never claimed by Dr Kugel, but by others. The edit in this article mix claims by others with Dr. Kugel. לידך, בלעדייך (talk) 01:46, 21 October 2024 (UTC)