Talk:Tambaram–Jasidih Ratna Express

Requested move 16 June 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Taking into account the proposer's withdrawal, no editors support the proposed name at this time. (non-admin closure) — Newslinger talk 00:25, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

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Chennai Central - Asansol Ratna Express → Tambaram – Jasidih Junction Ratna Weekly Express – The source as well as the destination stations of this train has been changed Sai199610 (talk) 17:02, 16 June 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 17:36, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Sai199610 (talk) 17:04, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

This request has been made to move this article. The press release of the South Eastern Railway depicts this change:

दक्षिणपूर्वरेलवे SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY प्रेसविज्ञप्ति PRESS RELEASE EXTENSION OF ASANSOL-CHENNAI EXPRESS Kolkata, 21st January, 2019: 12376/12375 Asansol-Chennai Express will be extended o­n both end from Asansol to Jasidih and from Chennai to Tambram via Chennai Egmore. The train will be renumbered as 13576/13575 w.e.f 01.05.19 from Jasidih and w.e.f 04.05.19 from Tambram. 13576 Jasidih-Tambram Express will leave Jasidih at 13.10 hrs every Wednesday and will reach Tambram at 23.55 hrs, the next day. In the return direction, 13575 Tambram-Jasidih Express will leave Tambram at 13.45 hrs every Saturday and will arrive Jasidih at 23.45 hrs, the next day. Discussions on this topic is invited. Ping User:Matthew hk Sai199610 (talk) 17:08, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

This should be an Uncontroversial move request. Sai199610 (talk) 17:15, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose Please list secondary source for example news article from newspaper to prove the change in (English language) common name, not primary source such as press release. Matthew hk (talk) 06:31, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose Agreed with Matthew hk. @Sai199610: The common name refers to the most commonly used name, which is what most articles, news pieces, jouurnals etc use. Changing/moving a page for a change that is very recent gives it WP:UNDUEWEIGHT✘ anonymousвهii 12:22, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

How can you expect the common name of a train to remain the same when both the source and the destination stations are changed. I hope you have "common sense". And where is it written that only a secondary source like a newspaper article can be taken into consideration when there is an official change made by the Indian Railways. Now if you want to oppose use your "common sense" and if possible give a valid resource which states that the present name is the common name. Or its okay even if give a relevant resource which says that "When the source and the destination of a train is changed, the older name with old source and destination is the common name or even its valid name". Give a newspaper resource if possible.Sai199610 (talk) 08:58, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Unless restricted by another policy, primary sources that have been reputably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them.[d] Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. For example, an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source.Sai199610 (talk) 09:41, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Also, regarding "common names". Per WP:COMMONNAME, recent name changes shouldn't trigger major changes, since those changes are official in nature, not common. So, for eg: if Allahabad is renamed Prayagraj, everything should still stay as Allahabad, with "Prayagraj" being mentioned as an official name within the article. This allows the name to naturally permeate, and when more news articles exist with "Prayagraj" instead of Allahabad, then the name can be changed and "Allahabad" should be mentioned as "also known as" or "formerly known as", to avoid WP:UNDUEWEIGHT✘ anonymousвهii 12:33, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Regarding why Matthew hk had asked for more sources, it's because using primary sources for common names again creates WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. Indian Railways can change things as much as they like, but the people still take time to adapt. If you were to provide an IR link as a primary source, a news report link as a secondary source, then this request wouldn't be opposed.✘ anonymousвهii 12:41, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

@Anonymousboii: So, should I "withdraw" my move request? And also the train has been extended so that is the reason why I requested for a move. As when a train is extended from both the ends it will be known only by the current source and destination. Else what I would like to tell is to remove the name of source and destination form the name and just keep it Ratna Express which is the name of the train then there will be no issues of the names of the stations. And regarding the secondary source I searched for it and got two newspaper articles in "Hindi" regarding the same.Sai199610 (talk) 12:58, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

@Sai199610: You can't just remove everything here lol. You gotta leave it here as evidence for any other time that this will come up again. The train will only be known as what it will be called by the Railways, and what everyone riding and talking about it call it. In this case, since it's barely two months old and I can't find a lot of sources with proposed name after a quick Google Search, it should stay as is.

This is the English Wikipedia, so English sources are to be used, according to WP:RS. A Hindi source works better on https://hi.wikipedia.org

I will change the lead though as it doesn't seem to match the page name. Again, the official name must be provided along with the common name to prevent undue weight.✘ anonymousвهii 13:17, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

@Anonymousboii: As per Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions RM can be withdrawn which I had done for Chennai Central railway station and SCSMT Kolhapur (Which was reverted back by User:Matthew hk don't know for what reason).Sai199610 (talk) 14:15, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I thought you were talking about blanking the talk page. ✘ anonymousвهii 05:25, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per MOS:DASH; the en dash should not be spaced (nor should a spaced hyphen be used). Otherwise no opinion. Dicklyon (talk) 06:39, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.