Talk:Chesapeake and Ohio Railway

Untitled

This page (and related pages) cries out for the question of the name "Chesapeak and Ohio" to be addressed. Is it related to the Chesapeake and Ohio canal http://www.fred.net/kathy/canal.html, the Ohio Company and to president George Washington one of its principals, and reputedly an early surveyor of the route?

Plagiarism

Much of this article is plagiarized from http://www.cohs.org/history/history.htm. - Mmathu 04:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• We need to follow up on that. Vaoverland (talk) 00:04, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

• • I was doing a research paper and noticed that the "C & O predecessors during the Civil War" section was lifted verbatim from the aforementioned website. Hope this helps

@DrOrinScrivello: comparison:

• The Historical Society page on October 9, 2004
• first revision of our article on October 23, 2004

That feels fairly conclusive. Vaoverland (talk · contribs) (who said above, ambiguously, that "We need to follow up on that") is the original author. He passed away in 2011. Mackensen (talk) 20:35, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

@Mackensen: I had neglected to include the {{copyvio|bottom}} template on the article, but upon a second look it appears as if the entire History section (therefore, essentially the entire article) was at least mostly composed of material from the external source. I went ahead and added the template to the bottom of the article. Is there anything else I need to do at this point, like request revdel, or a speedy delete? Thanks for your help. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 14:39, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

@DrOrinScrivello I don't know if a revdel is appropriate in this case; the article was "born" as a copyvio. That's unfortunate, given how prominent a topic this is within US railroading. I think we're better off with doing a clean rewrite. I'll make a post at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains. Mackensen (talk) 14:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

@Mackensen: Came here from the WT:TRAINS post. I happen to be between jobs at the moment IRL, so I have a short period in which I can devote more time than normal to editing. I'd be happy to help with rewriting, though I don't have any books specifically on the C&O as my focus is southern New England. I agree that the best thing to do is blow up the entire article and start fresh, to ensure any and all copyvio has been erased. Should we start a new version of the article in userspace or draftspae somewhere? This also begs the question: do we need to examine Vaoverland's other contributions for copyvio? Trainsandotherthings (talk) 18:42, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

@Trainsandotherthings I'll help; my C&O holdings are weak at the moment. I have a work on their passenger service and my Michigan books cover the ex-Pere Marquette part of the system. Let's start at Chesapeake and Ohio Railway/rewrite. Regarding Vaoverland, I think we start by checking articles that he created in that period. If we turn up others, we head over to Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations. I'll start on that checking now. Mackensen (talk) 21:46, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Both Southern Railway (U.S.) and Florida East Coast Railway have significant problems in their history; the former was noted in 2009 but nothing was done: Talk:Southern Railway (U.S.)#Copy and Paste. Mackensen (talk) 21:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

You can add Sewell's Point and Battle of Hampton Roads as well. Looks like a CCI is probably in order. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 22:18, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

@DrOrinScrivello @Trainsandotherthings FYI: Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations#Vaoverland. Mackensen (talk) 01:00, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

See Talk:Chesapeake and Ohio Railway/Temp. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 20:19, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I see MER-C has purged much of the history section as confirmed copyvio, but I am suspicious of what remains as it is virtually entirely uncited. Anyhow, it needs to be rewritten as an encyclopedia article instead of a personal essay. The puffery and weasel words are completely out of control. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:22, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

I was just looking at the same thing. The article is still a 90% Earwig match to the cohs.org history. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 17:26, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Wow, it was still really bad. I've chopped everything that I could find as copied. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:31, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

C&O's passenger services ended in 1971 with the formation of Amtrak.

"C&O's passenger services ended in 1971 with the formation of Amtrak." - This statement in the introductory section seems wrong; the C&O RR handled passengers on the Lake Michigan car ferries until at least the early 1980s (the C&O ferries were sold to the Michigan & Wisconsin Trans. Co. in 1983). C&O's passenger totals were 197,000 in 1971, 126,000 in 1979. The 1970s were operated by and for the C&O RR; the early 1980s were a C&O contract service for the DOT. - See Lake ferry service to run this summer (The Milwaukee Journal - June 5 1981) — Mmathu (talk) 18:47, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Locale

The C&O operated in Wisconsin also; they had a permanent switcher assigned to the car ferry dock and had trackage there. See More Classic American Railroads by Mike Schafer (page 25). Mmathu (talk) 14:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: Drury, George H. (1994). The Historical Guide to North American Railroads: Histories, Figures, and Features of more than 160 Railroads Abandoned or Merged since 1930. Waukesha, Wisconsin: Kalmbach Publishing. pp. 59–64. ISBN 0-89024-072-8. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help) Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you.

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Proposed merge of Kanawha Bridge and Terminal Company into Chesapeake and Ohio Railway

This company owned/operated one bridge and one mile of track for three years before it was purchased by the C&O. It does not seem to meet WP:GNG. MB 04:12, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

It seems more like it would be better suited for an article on the bridge itself. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:02, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree with DanTD. --YoungstownToast (talk) 02:14, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I found a little more historic info about this, specifically on Historic Aerials as well as the Open Railways Map. It's clear that this particular C&O Bridge that the Kanawha Bridge and Terminal Company was in charge of is now named the "Travis L. Castle Railroad Trestle," and is currently slated for transformation into a rail trail bridge. P.S., the "Kanawha and Michigan Railway" is now part of Norfolk Southern Railway's West Virginia Secondary. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 07:31, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I've moved to a bridge-focussed page (Kanawha Bridge), but perhaps the title of the page should be changed. Klbrain (talk) 06:36, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

C&O Chicago Terminal

The pages on Chicago's train stations say the C&O used Central, then Dearborn, than Central again, but it says for the latter only until the 1930s and not what it used afterword. Given it was doing fairly well during the Great Depression I doubt it would have tried to stop all passenger services out of Chicago and even if they did I doubt even more the ICC would have let them. When it acquired the PM it used La Salle and later the C&NW terminal but only for services on ex-PM tracks I'm fairly sure. What Chicago station did the C&O use from the 1930s to Amtrak? 38.111.255.98 (talk) 18:40, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I think the B&O and PM used Grand Central (not the same as the IC's Central) from (edit) 1902 (B&O) and 1903 (PM). In 1969 it closed and the B&O and PM moved to the Northwestern Station until Amtrak. I don't know how C&O fits, but it must somehow? Moon Joon (talk) 19:23, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Chesapeake and Ohio 1642

I don't understand what's going on with Chesapeake and Ohio 1642. The submission was declined, then it was moved into the main space, and "merged" (infobox and all) into this article, right into the top of the history section. Incidentally, said history section is in the middle of a copyvio investigation (see #Plagiarism above). Mackensen (talk) 10:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)