Talk:Chess with different armies

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Original Names

The names of some of the Nutty Knights have changed due to the difficulty of the pronounciation of the original names. While the new names are good enough, does anyone think that the old ones deserve a mention? The original names are printed below, along with a link to Betza's original Nutty Knights page.

Charging Rook = frlRrlbK = Furlrurlbackking

Charging Knight = fhNrlbK = Forfnibackking

Colonel = fhNfrlRK = Forfnifurlrurking

• The link

Ernest lk lam (talk) 14:22, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

unbalanced

Perhaps this was an inevitable result of playtesting this among masters, who would be more familiar with the orthodox pieces and not maximise the fairy pieces' potential, but every army in the standard lineup (Clobberers, Knights, and Rookies) is stronger than the FIDEs, ranging from about 0.5 to 1.5 pawns stronger (the Clobberers are more balanced than the too-strong Rookies and Knights, presumably because the latter would tend to feel more awkward to an average chessplayer).

I suggested on Talk:Maka dai dai shogi the possibility of replacing the FAD of the Clobberers with maF (moves as ferz once or twice per turn, but must stop once it makes a capture), and User:H.G.Muller verified that this makes them equal to the FIDEs (50% winning percentage for each side). I wonder what larger adjustment is needed for the others. Perhaps HFD to FD for the Rookies? (no, too much Double sharp (talk) 13:30, 18 February 2016 (UTC)) Double sharp (talk) 09:22, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

proposed weakenings

As discussed in various places on CVP and Wikipedia. (Obviously not for the article yet, until/unless someone playtests them and puts them as valid choices on CVP)

Colourbound Clobberers

My suggestion (playtested by H.G.Muller).

Bede (rook replacement)	Phoenix (knight replacement)
＼           ／   ＼   ☆   ／       ＼   ／       ☆   R   ☆       ／   ＼       ／   ☆   ＼   ／           ＼ Range: The bede can move any number of free squares along any of the four diagonal directions. Jump: It can jump to the second square in one of the four orthogonal directions. (BD) Due to its unusual movement, a bede can only reach half the squares on the board.	☆       ☆         ○           ○ N ○           ○         ☆       ☆                 Step: The phoenix can move one square in one of the four orthogonal directions. Jump: It can jump to the second square in one of the four diagonal directions. (WA)
Prime minister (bishop replacement)	Princess (queen replacement)
●   ●   ●       ●   ●       ●   B   ●       ●   ●       ●   ●   ●                 Area move: The prime minister can step in any diagonal direction once or twice in one turn. That is, it can step in another direction after its first step. It need not take both steps. It must stop when it captures. (maF) It can return to the square it started from, allowing the player to "skip" a turn. Due to its unusual movement, a prime minister can only reach half the squares on the board.	＼           ／   ＼ ☆   ☆ ／     ☆ ＼   ／ ☆         Q         ☆ ／   ＼ ☆     ／ ☆   ☆ ＼   ／           ＼ Range: The princess can move any number of free squares along any of the four diagonal directions. Jump: It can jump at an angle intermediate between orthogonal and diagonal, amounting to one intersection orthogonally plus one intersection diagonally, in a single motion, ignoring any intervening piece. That is, it has a choice of eight jumping destinations. (BN)

(Undecided about names: used the problemists' ones when I could find them. "Prime minister" is a joke on the meaning of "ferz", since it is a limited doublemove ferz.) Double sharp (talk) 09:11, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Remarkable Rookies

H.G.Muller's suggestion.

Short rook (rook replacement)	Wazaba (knight replacement)
○             ○         ○ ○ R ○ ○         ○             ○                     Range: The short rook can move up to two free squares along any of the four orthogonal directions. (R2)	☆             ○         ☆ ○ N ○ ☆         ○             ☆                     Step: The wazaba can move one square in one of the four orthogonal directions. Jump: It can jump to the second square in one of the four orthogonal directions. (WD)
Half-duck (bishop replacement)	Empress (queen replacement)
☆             ☆           ○   ○     ☆ ☆   B   ☆ ☆     ○   ○           ☆             ☆       Step: The half-duck can move one square in one of the four diagonal directions. Jump: It can jump to the second or third square in one of the four orthogonal directions. (HFD)	│           ☆ │ ☆       ☆   │   ☆   ─ ─ ─ Q ─ ─ ─   ☆   │   ☆       ☆ │ ☆           │       Range: The empress can move any number of free squares along any of the four orthogonal directions. Jump: It can jump at an angle intermediate between orthogonal and diagonal, amounting to one intersection orthogonally plus one intersection diagonally, in a single motion, ignoring any intervening piece. That is, it has a choice of eight jumping destinations. (RN)

Double sharp (talk) 09:18, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Edit: Weakened the short rook even further to R2 rather than R3, see discussion on User talk:H.G.Muller. Double sharp (talk) 21:05, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

I guess we should think about what to do with the Nutters... Double sharp (talk) 04:57, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

For the Nutters there are already the Drunken Nights published on the Chess Variants site in 2012: https://www.chessvariants.com/rules/drunken-nights 2003:E6:9722:8D41:66C:F2F3:6702:4C7 (talk) 16:42, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I am ready to add a section "Critique of the official armies" but I need something I can quote for this. Comments on the Chess Variants page are IMO sufficient for this because they have stable URL. Wikipedia talk pages are insufficient, no matter how good the suggestions are.2003:E6:9722:8D41:66C:F2F3:6702:4C7 (talk) 16:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Some links for critique H.G.Muller presents results from playtesting the Colorbound Clobbererers and the Nutty Knights against the FIDEs (2010/11/26 H.G.Muller ranks the 4 official armies as N > C >~ R > F 2015/03/28 Improved playtesting by H.G.Muller including the Rookies, now R > N > C > F 2015/04/01 Proposals by J. Knappen to weaken the Rookies and the Clobberers, naming BzB2 "Busy Beaver" 2015/04/03 2003:E6:9722:8D6D:BB14:E22B:AEEF:6432 (talk) 20:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

New armies to add

I should add H.G.Muller's armies (from CVP): the Bent Bozos and the Daring Dragons. Double sharp (talk) 07:47, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Done, but may have some issues that i don't know about on the formatting side Jan Gamecuber (talk) 02:03, 17 February 2023 (UTC)