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Talk:Chesterfield F.C.

Latest comment: 1 year ago by Spinney Hill in topic History
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Foundation

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Latest comment: 3 years ago10 comments5 people in discussion

I'm actually working on this article for the German wikipedia. In a reference book ("When Saturday comes. The half descent football book") I'm reading about the foundation day dating from October 19th, 1867 during a meteting of the Chesterfield Cricket Club at the County Hotel in Saltergate. In your Wikipedia article it says 1866. What time is correct and in case of 1866, has anyone more details? Regards --Vince2004 16:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)Reply

Club Historian Stuart Basson argues that the present Chesterfield F.C. can only be dated from the formation of Chesterfield Municipal on April 24th, 1919, not from 1866 or 1867. Given the patchy continuity with previous, sometimes short-lived entities, I think it's difficult to push the idea of Chesterfield F.C. being the 4th oldest club in the Football League. The case for 1919 makes a lot more sense - see http://www.chesterfield-fc.co.uk/page/History/0,,10435~897585,00.html Jaxban (talk) 16:49, 4 September 2011 (UTC) The club's foundation date was essentially resolved when the club revamped the history section at its new website for the 2012-13 season - see http://www.chesterfield-fc.co.uk/news/article/history-the-basics-195679.aspx - and gave the date of founding as 1919, as well as acknowledging three 'ancestor clubs' Jaxban (talk) 17:12, 29 January 2013 (UTC)Reply

The club's foundation date has been subject to reversion in the article despite the above citation that the present-day Chesterfield F.C. can only be dated from 1919 and despite full acknowledgement in the article of prior incarnations of a club in the town. The change has been undone in each instance as only one foundation date can be listed, making it impossible for earlier clubs to be acknowledged in this section while still giving a correct founding date for the present Chesterfield F.C. Can any editor propose a better solution? Jaxban (talk) 13:37, 12 April 2012 (UTC)Reply

On the official club website in an article by the official club historian


Formation: Chesterfield FC supports the widely-held belief that the club was formed in 1866.

Read more at http://www.chesterfield-fc.co.uk/news/article/history-the-essentials-195679.aspx#RkdcLY0pXj2ok0er.99

If the club has adopted this date as official and the club historian has also done so then I would suggest the onus is on others to show evidence to the contrary. Considering Stuart Basson is quoted above as arguing against the 1866 it seems strange his official artical on teh official site says otherwise.

The use of that source is dubious at best. Even the club cannot bring itself to outright state that it was founded in 1866. It simply says it "supports the widely-held belief". Wikipedia deals with facts not beliefs. That date was actually invented by a club director. Even the 1867 date is for another club that folded in the 1880s.[1] Eckerslike (talk) 23:54, 13 January 2016 (UTC)Reply

So the clubs official source and a quote from the official club historian is dubious. please explain where the proof for 1867 is from? o wait 2 external sites which have no proof at all. another case of a wikipedia facist reverting for the sake of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.132.127 (talk) 21:13, 14 January 2016 (UTC)Reply

I suggest you read WP:CIVIL to avoid getting banned. It is not the club which is dubious but the claim itself. Until recently the article you are using as your reference supported the 1919 date.[2] The problem with the current version is that it doesn't actually claim that the club was formed in 1866. It uses very woolly wording probably because the club historian knows that the date is false. He was the one who discovered its dubious origin. As you have so much faith in him I decided to use the article he wrote on the subject as the source. It starts "The current Chesterfield FC dates from April 1919...". Eckerslike (talk) 15:59, 15 January 2016 (UTC)Reply

The club themselves have now opfficially acknowledges the 1866 date, the club historian has also done so. They are now officially commemorating this so I would suggest anyone reverting to any other date is now going against the official line. http://www.chesterfield-fc.co.uk/news/article/sign-commissioned-to-mark-150th-anniversary-2955000.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.132.127 (talk) 16:55, 16 February 2016 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia is not here to toe the line of Chesterfield F.C. Perhaps you should read WP:Primary as this clearly comes under club propaganda. However if you insist on a official source for the 1919 date then you can go here. The article has since been removed but demonstrates the clubs inconsistent line on its foundation date. As you are insisting on a 'official' source I've gone ahead and used it. Note also that it is written by the club historian. As I noted above he was the one who originally debunked the 1866 date. So he in no way supports the claim. Eckerslike (talk) 19:07, 16 February 2016 (UTC)Reply

WP:SOURCE states "Base articles on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy" (my emphasis). Your insistence on using the club themselves as a source clearly does not meet this criteria. Particularly as they have proven to be unreliable on the topic of their own foundation stating as recently as last month that they were founded in 1919.[3] Your assertion that Stuart Basson is alone in not accepting the 1866 date is not only without any supporting evidence and incorrect. I have found two other books that ignore it. Firstly When Saturday Comes uses the 1967 date despite acknowledging that the club was dissolved in 1881. Confusingly the other book is titled An Official History of Chesterfield Football Club 1886-1991: A Commemorative Publication to Celebrate 125 years. So no one seems to be able to agree on when it was established except for it not being 1866.

Given the contradiction between sources I’ll use both the 1867 and 1919 dates I will insert both into the infobox with the two relevant sources. I hope you will desist in removing sourced material and repeatedly asserting that we have to follow the official club point of view. To my knowledge that is not a policy of wikipedia. You need a reliable source with a neutral point of view to back up your argument and promotional material from the club does not fit into that category. Eckerslike (talk) 19:35, 21 February 2016 (UTC)Reply

Just wanted to personally add that I have been doing a lot of research of the Midland League from the 1910s, which literally involved reading through 1,000s of contemporary papers from across the region, including dedicated sports papers for the area as well as more traditional local and regional newspapers. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Chesterfield FC was formed in 1919. The previous incarnation "Chesterfield Town" had no connection to the previous Chesterfield Town or Chesterfield Municipal, beyond some of the players who did play for more than one of the clubs. Only if a more substantial connection between Chesterfield Municipal and the previous-but-one Chesterfield Town can be found, and one would be tenuous at best, could there be any basis in the claim that the current Chesterfield was formed any earlier than 1919. Chesterfield were not the focus of my research so I didn't records dates, publications, etc. relevant to this debate, but it's all there on microfiche in local libraries.

I think it stands to reason that however competent the Chesterfield historian is, any modern script/claim/article does not trump contemporary reports unless those contemporary reports are found to be incorrect or misleading. That is to say, if those who founded Chesterfield Municipal did not consider it to be a direct successor of either of the Chesterfield Towns that came before, or any of the various Chesterfield clubs referred to in contemporary reports, then who are we to argue with them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A03F:6565:9600:3930:A287:733D:55F4 (talk) 14:12, 17 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Refernce to Saltergate

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Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I believe Deepdale, the home of Preston North End, is the stadium that has been used for the longest period of time in the Football League. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.23.99.80 (talk) 11:21, 4 April 2010 (UTC)Reply

History Section

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Latest comment: 13 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

This should be in paragraphs, not a bullet pointed chronology of major events. If anyone knowledgeable about the club would like to give it a go then that would be great.--EchetusXe 12:22, 1 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

I have a book on English clubs that devotes six pages to Chesterfield (it's currently used to source some of the bullets), so I might be able to help. But you'll have to wait a few hours as I don't have it with me right now. Alzarian16 (talk) 12:41, 1 April 2011 (UTC)Reply
Should be better now. Alzarian16 (talk) 17:41, 2 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Stadium Section

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Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I have removed the following statement from the Stadium section...

"On 15 February 2013, Derbyshire County Council have granted planning permission to Chesterfield Football Club to build bronze statues outside the Proact Stadium of club 'legends' Jack Lester and Jason Lee. Estimated at a cost of £2,500,000 work is to begin at the end of the season (2012/2013)"

The reason I have removed it is because it I believe it to be vandalism. Firstly there is no source listed for the where this information comes from. Secondly Jason Lee is not really a legend for the club as he barely played and only scored once. Thirdly I could find no mention of this on the chesterfield fc website and finally the price tag seems over inflated for two statues and both the players listed and price seem to have changed a number of times in a short space of time which also happened to coincide with april fools day. This website - http://www.chesterfieldpost.co.uk/sport/chest_fc/09_2010/sports_cfc_00000113.html also seems to indicate that it is an april fools joke. Zeb 04:14, 3 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Rivalries Section

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

This section completely lacks sources and is very subjective. Sofaclass (talk) 22:42, 31 March 2017 (UTC)Reply

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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History

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Latest comment: 1 year ago1 comment1 person in discussion

There is something wrong about the dates in this passage I think:

"Chesterfield secured sixth-place in League One at the end of the 2014–15 campaign, and went on to lose 4–0 on aggregate to Preston North End in the two-legged play-off semi-final.[18] Cook departed at the end of the season and was replaced as manager by Dean Saunders. On 14 November 2016, majority shareholder Dave Allen resigned from his roles as chairman and director of the club.[19] This signaled a crisis, and four days later a further four directors resigned from their roles.[20] It was announced that Chesterfield was openly up for sale, and desperately needed some kind of investment in order to avoid administration. Mike Warner was installed as chairman on 19 November.[21] Manager Saunders was then sacked in December 2015 and replaced by Danny Wilson."

Can anyone correct it? I don't have the sources.Spinney Hill (talk) 09:09, 14 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

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