Talk:Childlessness
Latest comment: 2 years ago by Another Believer in topic Climate change
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edit- Hello, my name is Lauren and I am a senior at Clemson University; we are required to take a course that entails making contributions to articles of interest on Wikipedia. I would like to make some revisions to this page concerning format and content. I would also like to add a section about the options available to those who are childless, such as adoption or surrogacy.
- Hey guys, so far I have added a couple different sections, one on options for those affected by childlessness(Surrogacy,Adoption, InVitro,etc), and another under impacts of voluntary childlessness (History of Contraception, Societal Impact,etc.). I have also expanded some of the sections to include a little more detail for the reader. I've taken out some sections, re-formatted some things, and done some simple grammar errors. Any thoughts, comments, and suggestions would be much appreciated.
- We had the option for our class project to work on the same article again and since I thought I could contribute more I decided to continue on this one. I added just a couple section about positive aspects of childlessness and the stigma of involuntary childlessness. Please comment.
Notable childless list
editHello. I have a comment for whoever put together the list of notable childless couples. It is for the most part male. I seriously question why when there are so many notable females. -SusanLesch (talk) 13:55, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- For the record I'll record the version of this list I found when I came to this article and the new one when I get done. Thank you. -SusanLesch (talk) 14:07, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- There is absolutely no reason for that list. Besides the ridiculous gender bias there, it's pointless - what are we to do, list 5-10% of famous married people? - and the presence of two fascists (including Hitler), Lenin, and two eugenicists suggest to me that someone is trying to push an agenda here. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 14:31, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- Then let's delete the list. I'll do it when I get done here. To finish what I started, the following women were omitted from the list of authors, artists and musicians, and this is just authors: Charlotte Brontë, Lou Andreas-Salomé, Christina Stead, Isak Dinesen, Katherine Mansfield, Virginia Woolf, Edith Wharton, Carson McCullers, and Djuna Barnes. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:29, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- It would make more sense to only list people who have labeled themselves as childfree. I mean, someone who just didn't have kids is not necessarily childfree.--Henriettapussycat (talk) 15:47, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- Henriettapussycat, it is possible childfree and childless could be merged. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:25, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- It would make more sense to only list people who have labeled themselves as childfree. I mean, someone who just didn't have kids is not necessarily childfree.--Henriettapussycat (talk) 15:47, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- Then let's delete the list. I'll do it when I get done here. To finish what I started, the following women were omitted from the list of authors, artists and musicians, and this is just authors: Charlotte Brontë, Lou Andreas-Salomé, Christina Stead, Isak Dinesen, Katherine Mansfield, Virginia Woolf, Edith Wharton, Carson McCullers, and Djuna Barnes. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:29, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- There is absolutely no reason for that list. Besides the ridiculous gender bias there, it's pointless - what are we to do, list 5-10% of famous married people? - and the presence of two fascists (including Hitler), Lenin, and two eugenicists suggest to me that someone is trying to push an agenda here. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 14:31, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
- Sounds reasonable to me. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, I cannot agree with this merge. There is a difference between being childless and childfree. Being childless means you've been unable to have children (ie: infertile). Childfree means you have made a conscious decision to not have children. Nanami Khalil (talk) 11:56, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
- I also disagree with a merge because the two things are different and especially because childlessness is an issue with great historical, cultural, medical and political importance and a range of serious impacts. Individual decisions not to have children, when taken freely, matter to individuals, but do not reverberate in the same way. Putting both in the same article also gives an unbalanced, non-global impression because it implies that everyone now has, and has had, the option to be childfree when they have not. Whiteghost.ink 11:35, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, I cannot agree with this merge. There is a difference between being childless and childfree. Being childless means you've been unable to have children (ie: infertile). Childfree means you have made a conscious decision to not have children. Nanami Khalil (talk) 11:56, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sounds reasonable to me. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
An editor has seen fit to reintroduce the list. I've removed it and commented out the header for reasons previously discussed, with this provision: If being childless is an important part of a famous person's life - if they wrote about it (fiction or nonfiction), or made a public statement about it - then they could be put there. But none of the people on that former list have any real notability for being childless (Galton and Hadyn possibly made brief note of their dissatisfaction with lack of children in private works), and Jackson even had several adopted children. So, tl;dr: do not add any list of childfree people unless their childfreedom is significant and you can avoid a ridiculous gender bias. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 16:01, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- I disagree with your conclusion and would like to hear other opinions first. I personally find it very interesting to learn about historically famous scientists, politicians and scholars who chose to go against the norṃs of their era, and thus feel that the current list has its place in this article. There are lists of similar nature already on Wikipedia. For example, you could say that it is not particularly noteworthy to die at the young age of 27, but Wikipedia still lists famous individuals who met such a fate. Mvaldemar (talk) 16:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- My thinking is that unless a person discusses being childfree as a lifestyle choice we don't know that it was one. Someone might be infertile or not had a romantic partner during the time in their life that they were fertile. Or they might have been separated by distance through service in the military. These are not voluntary decisions but never-the-less common reasons that people might have not had any children. For these reason, I don't think we should mix these people together on a single list of people that are childless. And I think that we should never put people on a list of people who made it a lifestyle choice unless we know that they did. FloNight♥♥♥♥ 16:40, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- Agreed. As for the example of the 27 Club: it's about a statistical anomaly that has received media attention. The people on this list, however, none have received attention for their not having children. So unless they meet that standard of notability, they shouldn't be on the list. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 17:12, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- My thinking is that unless a person discusses being childfree as a lifestyle choice we don't know that it was one. Someone might be infertile or not had a romantic partner during the time in their life that they were fertile. Or they might have been separated by distance through service in the military. These are not voluntary decisions but never-the-less common reasons that people might have not had any children. For these reason, I don't think we should mix these people together on a single list of people that are childless. And I think that we should never put people on a list of people who made it a lifestyle choice unless we know that they did. FloNight♥♥♥♥ 16:40, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
- I disagree with your conclusion and would like to hear other opinions first. I personally find it very interesting to learn about historically famous scientists, politicians and scholars who chose to go against the norṃs of their era, and thus feel that the current list has its place in this article. There are lists of similar nature already on Wikipedia. For example, you could say that it is not particularly noteworthy to die at the young age of 27, but Wikipedia still lists famous individuals who met such a fate. Mvaldemar (talk) 16:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
Climate change
edit- https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/climate-change-is-making-people-think-twice-about-having-children.html
- https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/13/21132013/climate-change-children-kids-anti-natalism
- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/20/give-up-having-children-couples-save-planet-climate-crisis
- https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/20/style/breed-children-climate-change.html
- https://www.stylist.co.uk/long-reads/child-free-women-not-having-children-climate-change-environment-planet-earth/219815