Talk:Chili pepper/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

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History

This section is unfortunately a mess. Let me ask two questions:

1. Where did chili originate?
2. Who brought chili to Asia?

We need to stick to one answer. Either it was brought to Asia or it originated there. If it was brought there, it was either before or after Columbus, and either by Westerners or not.

Alternatively, if there is no consensus that's okay if we use that as our answer. That is, instead of saying both "brought by Spaniards/Portuguese" and "came earlier" we need to show we are aware of the contradiction and say something like "there is no consensus" or "it came both ways, and here's an explanation for what that means: ...".

But the section needs heavy editing. As is, it says both A and B with no analysis or self-reflection. CapnZapp (talk) 13:46, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

You could go ahead and edit the History section. I agree it could be said with about half as much content. 1) PMID 24753581 and PMID 27245634 say chilis have origin in the region of Mexico-Central America-northwest South America, and 2) other sources support the spread of chilis throughout Europe and Asia by Portuguese seafarers in the 15th century. --Zefr (talk) 14:00, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, but do note the tagged issue isn't {{verbosity}} or {{refimprove}}, it's {{self-contradictory}}. Regards CapnZapp (talk) 21:24, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Made a new edit. The claim Columbus was "among the first" is probably a good-faith edit to distinguish that it is quite possible one of his crew beat him to it. However, the phrasing is unfortunate since it opens the back door to the theory Europeans had encountered chillies even before Columbus. As I have said above, that in itself is not something I am inherently against if we can find reliable sources. Until we do, however, the encyclopedic quality demands that we take a stand to assert that Columbus (and his crew) was indeed first. CapnZapp (talk) 14:32, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

I agree the content could be stated better, and made a revision of your edit, with two additional sources for Asian uses, to make the section more definitive. I also removed the discussion of paprika as WP:OFFTOPIC. --Zefr (talk) 15:34, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

I'd also be curious how/when chili peppers appeared in Africa (e.g. to make berbere), assuming they weren't always there. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:06, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

There are records that chilies came to Goa in India by 1510 via the Portuguese and the first chilies introduced in Africa came via Brazil; without other sources the assumption is going to be that Portuguese traders sometime after 1500 (or 1498) brought the chilies to Africa and not the first expedition of Abubakari II of Mali; chilies are native to the Americas and not Africa. Falconjh (talk) 00:23, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

capsicum

Ok,why is this article called chilli but it refers to the biological name ‘capsicum annuum’ and not ‘capsicum’? The article later on states that “there are 5 domesticated species of chilli pepper’ and includes capsicum annuum along with capsicum frutescens in the groups of what is known as chilli which is CAPSICUM. Therefore according to the very same article capsicum is THE CHILLI PEPPER. So it should be fixed and refer to the biological name capsicum as opposed to capsicum annuum. Can you fix that or answer thy it refers to capsicum annuum according to the article. ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.119.80.219 (talk) 08:10, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. I have changed the infobox to one for the whole capsicum genus, and added prominent chili pepper cultivars of the other species to the infobox. Morgan Riley (talk) 04:28, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• Green Chilli with Kakroda.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:37, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

"Long Hots" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Long Hots. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 1#Long Hots until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 19:05, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Culinary uses

The list included in this section has degenerated into a list of any dish that has chili peppers in it. I think we need to cull it to only include those dishes/food products in which chilis are a featured/main/crucial ingredient, maybe put it into a paragraph, which may help keep it from getting out of hand again. —valereee (talk) 12:19, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Chile. Not chili.

Chile is a new world fruit from the Americas. According to Wikipedia policy (The official policy is to use British spelling when writing about British topics, and American [sic] for topics relating to the United States) the topic should be titled "Chile". Chili is a dish made from chiles. Pepper is a misnomer. Regardless of popular opinions, facts should be the driving principle for articles on Wikipedia. 24.24.187.216 (talk) 13:32, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

"Chili" is the most common spelling in American English, by a lot. That's a fact, one that's been hashed out already as seen in the archives. oknazevad (talk) 14:30, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Oknazevad I remember the original conversation. It was wrong then and it still is. It's white privilege. 24.24.187.216 (talk) 01:25, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Guinness world records reference

Why are Guinness world records given particular significance in the "Notable hot chili peppers" section? Does Guinness have some kind of decisive authority or particular interest in the extremely hot chili pepper industry? I would argue that they don't, since they have neither verified nor disproven the schoville ratings of the two strong contenders in the past 5 years that the peppers have existed. 84.248.2.22 (talk) 22:52, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

I would like to see you improve this article by explaining the nightshades alkalinic properties

so if you go ahead and look at the poisonous ingredient of a nightshade it's an alkaline and anyone with any common sense knows the chili pepper is acidic so I think that to improve this article you should clarify what you're talking about for their chili peppers don't fall into I would I would I'm not sure that they fall into the nightshade family or not but I would like some clarification on it but I am sure that they don't fall into the same category as tomatoes potatoes eggplants and bell peppers bell peppers might have been a cross between them but I'm almost positive chili peppers are a separate if not naturally occurring plant. So you can improve the article by explaining how the nightshades poison is alkaline alkaline is an alkaline and how a chili pepper which is highly acidic is related to a nightshade which is a categorized by its alkaline poison. I can add a bit of contacts by explaining to that alkaline and acidity need a balance in people for example two match acidity and cause health problems and such but too much alkaline is death as far as I know this is true with any species there's a balance but some species and different animals and classifications and plants can tolerate a lot more acidity but the opposite is not true with alcohol alkaline. 209.171.85.193 (talk) 14:47, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

The poison in nighshade is an alkaloid, and only mildly alkaline. "anyone with any common sense knows the chili pepper is acidic"? I diagree. It's often pungent, that's different. Both plants, along with tomatoes and potatoes, are members of the Solanaceae. This article is about chili peppers, not nightshade. Maproom (talk) 22:38, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

FAOSTAT interpretation

The UN CPC v2.1 has three codes related to Capcicum production stats:

• 23922 Chillies and peppers, dry (capsicum spp., pimenta), processed
• 01652 Chillies and peppers, dry (Capsicum spp., Pimenta spp.), raw
• 01231 Chillies and peppers, green (Capsicum spp. and Pimenta spp.)

All three of these include not just chili peppers, but other Capcisum (e.g. green pepper) and pimenta (allspice). The 01231 currently in use might be mostly non-spicy (-> not chili) pepper in some countries. (What does "green" mean anyways? The color of unripe capsicum, or just "fresh, not dried" like in the HS #070960 equivalent?) Artoria2e5 🌉 11:18, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Categories of chili peppers

This article makes the following claim: "Peppers are commonly broken down into two groupings: bell peppers (UK: sweet peppers) and hot peppers. Most popular pepper varieties are seen as falling into one of these categories or a cross between them"

I'm not sure this is true. Just above, bell peppers are referenced as a variety of Capsicum annuum. It seems a bit confusing to have this statement made directly below without any explanation or citation. 128.180.196.168 (talk) 18:07, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

The final paragraph of the lead section ..

.. has two sentences. The first states that the fruits are "white, yellow, red or purple to black", and the second is about the green ones. I'm not sure what has gone wrong here. Maproom (talk) 22:41, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

The first sentence addresses the colors possible in cultivars under years of breeding to establish desirable traits for consumers. The second sentence comes from representative FAO data on global and national pepper production (also under the Production subhead). Using the FAO source and picklists, I checked the FAO production categories, which include under "crops, primary" 1) chillies and peppers, dry (Capsicum spp.), 2) chillies and peppers, green (Capsicum spp.), and 3) pepper (Piper spp.), raw.

This article is about both 1) and 2). Not sure how we should best present production data, as various cuisines use either or both raw/dried, and colors are not differentiated under 1). Perhaps as the production note requests, there should be a table for raw (would be for green) and another for dried (color unknown). Most recent data available from FAO are from 2021. Zefr (talk) 23:52, 1 December 2023 (UTC)