Talk:Chippendales

Improvement needed

The article needs substantial editing: there are spelling mistakes, ambiguous pronouns ("... Banerjee enlisted ex-con Ray Colon. He wanted ..."), etc.

The article consists mostly of sentences that are short and choppy ("The man was an FBI informant."), or wordy, flowery and sentimental ("An ever devoted family man, Banerjee took his own life by hanging himself in his cell during the early morning hours ..."). In short, it reads like a popular true crime paperback.

No references are mentioned, either.

Hello please I would like to reference my article on Mr. Somen "Steve" Banerjee. It is well documented about his background from our country. A Bengali immigrant who created this dance group. [[1]] please comment. Thank you.

Hello Wikipedia world I added a helpful link to explain the Bengali heritage of Mr Somen Banerjee however I do not recognize the other person referenced in this history article. Mr Nahin. I have nothing in my notes with Mr Banerjee showing he was also the owner. Can someone help me please with documentation? Most thankful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amoli rose (talk • contribs) 01:38, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Chippendiddys

What about a brief paragraph concerning the 1995 spin-off boy-troupe in Great Britain, called the Chippendiddys? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.145.90.130 (talk) 05:40, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Banerjee article

I think this Banerjee person should get his own entry, for the Chippendales article is more about him than the dancers themselves.

I agree. Too often his authorship has been tampered with and there's a special story to his creating this iconic brand. Ericmalibu 23:49, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Origin of the name

Hope someone knows where the name came from. Was it from a town, or is there any connection with the furniture-maker? 217.166.94.1I named it after the furniture in the club called Destiny II..Bruce A nahin

Alledgely it comes from the Chippendale-style furniture present at the original club though this may very well be apocryphal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.55.239 (talk) 13:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I worked for Steve Banerjee directly. From my experience in promoting Chippendales worldwide working with two, bi-coastal public relations firms, working with employees who were there in 1979 - Banerjee came up with the name Chippendales from looking through magazines. Banerjee came up with the name himself. He always liked playing with names and words since English was a third language for him. Banerjee was a creative genius and saw marketing potential quickly. The inside joke at the time when I was working at Chippendales is that the furniture never existed in the club. I welcome conversation or talk by my fellow editors. I propose a consensus to change this statement to "Steve Banerjee came up with the name Chippendales by seeing the name in a magazine. It sounded feminine to him and would attract a female audience." Ericmalibu 01:13, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I can answer just about any question on Chippendales and its origin. I was there and spoke to Steve on a daily basis. During a renovation of Destiny 2 there were 2 pieces of furniture put into the club. Chippendales-like. It is true that Steve was always looking thru magazines and what was trending at the time. He was very aware of what people thought. I would not say he was in any way a creative genius, but he was aware of what was happening. He alone came up with the name Chippendales. But the dancing itself .. he did not come up with. Wondering if the above is Gilbert. He was there .. after I was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShubhoBanerjee1957 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

@ShubhoBanerjee1957: Hello ShuboBanerjee1957. You have the handle name of Steve Banerjee's brother. What role did you play before I was there? I am glad you agree that Banerjee came up with the name Chippendales. I worked with Banerjee from 1985 - 1991. Same offices. 8 years. I worked with him every day. So I have a different opinion about Banerjee's creative ability. I realize there are some who wish to dis Steve Banerjee's authorship and creativity. I worked with Steve on dozens of projects for merchandise and entertainment. But I agree that Banerjee did not come up with male burlesque. That was of course Paul Snider. I credit Steve Banerjee with putting together the brand - Chippendales. If you were a participant at Chippendales you have to declare yourself as a COI editor. Wikipedia does not allow COI editors to make changes to pages if they have a conflict of interest with Chippendales. But we can share on this Talk page our experience and information. Thanks. Ericmalibu 18:44, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi Eric my friend, We know each other well. Will talk soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShubhoBanerjee1957 (talk • contribs) 18:57, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

@ShubhoBanerjee1957: haha Shubho. Thanks. Few. Very few people would know that name. I know who Banerjee spoke to daily, so I have a good idea. But Wikipedia has a policy on outing so I cannot speculate in this forum. In any case, my goal is to make this page honest and unbiased since the page has been routinely vandalized by self promoters and then cleaned up. So any information you can add for discussion we can petition to add to the article through impartial editors. Or you can contact me through my Wikipedia user page. Thanks again Shubho. Ericmalibu 19:41, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Chippendales article

I think this article is fine under Chippendales, but if it is under Chippendale dancers, then the article should be about the current/past dancers, not the origins of Chippendales.

I moved this back to Chippendales, but what a mess this article is. It reads more like a tabloid story. Stuff not related to the club should be in the individual biographies. Let's make the article about what it says it is. DJ Clayworth (talk) 15:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the initiative. What was the address of the original club? it was on overland Ave north of Venice in Los Angles California( the Palms area)Bruce A Nahin Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 15:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, this article has ONLY biographical details about the owners. Nothing about the club itself, OR the dancers, except in the very first sentence. ("Chippendales is a nightclub best known for its erotic male dancing.") -- megA (talk) 11:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

How does one go about "Distancing the company from its somewhat risqué past", when it remains a strip act? It will always be porography, not merely risque. If they keep their clothes on it may be toned down to the level where it could be called only risque!

Removing Cleanup tag

I did a heavy copy-edit on this article and brought it up to WP standards, so I removed the Cleanup tag. I had to excise a lot of detail and would be glad to have it back if it were cogent and to the point. This still need in-line sources, and the article really should not have been kept around so long without them. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 02:37, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Article needs rewritten

This article has so many problems, it would be better to completely rewrite it. The article does not explain the basic concept of The Chippendales, instead focusing solely on the early history of the act. There are too few sources. I would like to give this article a fresh start by replacing the content with a translation of the better German Wikipedia article.- Gilliam (talk) 04:47, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Could you develop your proposed article in userspace, so we can see the two side by side? Thanks! -Anirvan (talk) 03:11, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Poorly written articles occur when the author tries to circumvent pertinent information, such as the exact location of the first Chippendale club and a fleshing out of the history and its general embracing by mainstream American culture. The problem with this article stems from the writer having difficulty admitting the United States isn't the world's most oppressive conservative evil empire, after all. You have to read between the lines to understand why this article is so lifeless. --MarioSmario (talk) 21:28, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I am not a writer but would love to have our true story told..perhaps I do need my own page? anyway feel free to contact me at bruce.nahin@gmail.com for any questions you need answered — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.129.121.119 (talk) 16:09, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Chippendales. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.ktnv.com/story/9959116/chippendales-celebrate-30-years?redirected=true
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120322002511/http://www.kmbc.com/r/27476879/detail.html to http://www.kmbc.com/r/27476879/detail.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
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The Chronogical Dancers

Hey, can you please have all chronological former dancers names with the year of the beginning and the end? I want to credit the dancers because I like the Chippendales, it such an amazing group, it's not the first time that I doing that, the first one was deleted by a person because it was "poorly written and uncited." So, I create a new one and I'm waiting for more former names! ♡ Sunnyrxse (talk) 16:49, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

@Sunnyrxse: Hi. You need to add references for the list otherwise it's likely to be deleted again. --John B123 (talk) 17:48, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Propose Removal of "co-owner Destiny II" Line

Information to be removed or subtracted: "and attorney Bruce Nahin purchased" Should read: Chippendales was founded in 1977 when Somen Banerjee, owner of Mobil gas stations in Playa Del Rey, purchased a backgammon club called "Destiny II" on 3739 Overland Avenue in Culver City, California.

Explanation of issue: I cannot edit this directly because of COI. I was a former employee under Steve Banerjee at Chippendales. I do not recognize the recent addition of Bruce Nahin's name as the co-owner of Destiny II. Steve Banerjee was always one hundred percent the owner of Easebe Enterprises and the full owner of Destiny II at that club address (3739 OVERLAND AVE , LOS ANGELES, CA, 90034). (Pronounced "S-B" as in the initials of Banerjee's name) as I was responsible for promoting Chippendales so I knew the history of the club. To verify my request I have submitted the California Alcohol Beverage Control board license for the nightclub at that time listing Easebe Enterprises as the owner. I welcome Talk and discussion about this proposed change with my fellow editors.

References supporting change: https://www.abc.ca.gov/licensing/license-lookup/single-license/?RPTTYPE=14&COMPANY=Y&LICENSEE=Easebe+Enterprises

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericmalibu (talk • contribs) 22:30, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately the reference only shows Easebe Enterprises enterprises as the owners of the club. It doesn't give any insight as to the owners of Easebe Enterprises. --John B123 (talk) 22:52, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Have reverted back to an older version which says nothing about a purchase. Have changed year to just "late 1970s" since it was unsourced and your year was different from the two other ones already in the article. Note that your link is a primary source. What sources could we use to rewrite this barely sourced history section? I see that almost all facts have been added through the years by opposing WP:COI editors. – Thjarkur (talk) 00:00, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Have now rewritten the section from scratch. – Thjarkur (talk) 00:44, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@Þjarkur and Thjarkur: Thanks Thjarkur. That reads cleanly. There were a lot of unsourced statements in the previous version. Steve "Somen" Banerjee was the owner and creator of this club and brand.

@John B123: Hi John. I believe the license is a valid verification of the club ownership. Easebe Enterprises was one hundred percent owned by Steve and Irene Banerjee. The phonetic pronunciation of Easebe is Banerjee's initials "S B". In California the liquor license follows the owner of the property. I can show Easebe Enterprises was owned by Steve Banerjee. Should I cross reference this? Would that help? Thanks. Ericmalibu 01:23, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

​Wikipedia can't use government records as a source since they are a primary source. We try to only reflect secondary sources such as newspapers and books. – Thjarkur (talk) 08:42, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@Þjarkur and Thjarkur: Thank you Thjarkur for your response. I did read the definition of a primary source and there is no listing of government documents as being a definition. I beg to differ that a state issued alcohol license in the name of "Easebe Enterprises" is invalid. Can you point to me the exact phrase in the primary source page? My account of Chippendales history because I am an actual participant is a primary source and therefor exclusionary. I have access online to proof that Easebe Enterprises was owned by Steve "Somen" Banerjee and his wife Irene. I would like to post this link to Easebe Enterprises as a request to edit or add this statement. Thank you. Ericmalibu 12:07, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@Ericmalibu: In reply to your email, I'm not an admin and this page is one of many on my watchlist hence my involvement. I have no doubts about your sincerity or your desire to have an accurate article. Unfortunately, "I was there at the time" carries little weight on Wikipedia. (I know there are inaccuracies in many articles about motorcycles of the 1960s and 70s, but my experience of working at a motorcycle dealer for most of the 70s doesn't count if I can't find reliable sources to back up what I know to be the case). Establishing ownership of Easebe Enterprises would go a long way to resolving this situation. Regards. --John B123 (talk) 15:06, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@John B123: Hi John B123. I thank you for clarifying how I can research this claim further for adding. I will work on this. Also I welcome other editors to get involved in this history page with their own reliable sources for an active discussion so we can make this Chippendales history a really trustworthy and interesting page to read. Thanks. Ericmalibu 16:28, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Invite Editors to Discuss and Contribute Chippendales History

Hi fellow Wikipedia editors. I would like to invite a discussion of what statements to add in the Chippendales History article that are fact based with citations or verifiable references. I am an ex-employee so I have to abide by the COI guidelines. However I can contribute through the request edit template with verifiable sources and I can offer information and help through this Talk page. If you are an ex-employee or former contractor, please abide by the COI guidelines set forth by Wikipedia. If you are a paid editor please disclose your relationship. We want a trustworthy article that is fair, neutral and fact based. Not a PR vehicle or an advocacy for someone's role. Please feel free to contribute and discuss. Thank you. Let's make this an interesting article to read. Ericmalibu 00:14, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Need a Consensus Amongst Editors: Add Banerjee as 100% Shareholder of Easebe Enterprises

Hello fellow Wikipedia Editors:

I have researched that the U.S. Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit recognizes Banerjee as the sole shareholder of Easebe Enterprises (phonetically pronounced "S B" as in Steve Banerjee). I am hoping everyone who comments is of a neutral point of view. There has been quite a bit of vandalism on this page through the years in regards to false, unsourced claims by editors who are COI under different puppet names changing facts for the sake of advocacy or promotion. Now that the history page has been cleaned by consensus through reverting to a neutral point in time: my intent is to bring resourced facts to the Chippendales History article from a neutral point of view. Again respecting my own COI position but doing this openly and under the rules of COI. Hopefully we can discuss this in the spirit of Wikipedia if you have any questions or comments before I submit a request edit template for approval. Thank you. Ericmalibu 00:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I have also been doing some research. Sources giving Bruce Nahin as the founder/co-founder seem to have originated from Nahin himself and are more recent than the contemporaneous sources giving Steve Banerjee as the founder. Whilst you could argue the reference above only shows Banerjee was the owner at a later date, not in the early stages, I'm comfortable that Nahin had no significant involvement with the club.

Following on from the reference above, it would be useful if the significance of Unicorn Tales, Inc and Chippendales Universal, Inc. were brought out in the article.

Perhaps Nahin deserves a mention towards the end of the article along the lines of "Film director Bruce Nahin later claimed to have been the founder of the Chippendales". --John B123 (talk) 16:01, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback John B123. I appreciate it. Yes. Unicorn Tales was Nick De Noia's video company for children's videos and that would be significant to add. And I can research the company video credits. I would like to submit this and the California liquor license as a template to authenticate Steve Banerjee's ownership. The question of shareholder holdings at the formation of the corporation can be resolved by getting the articles of incorporation from California. Personally, I know Banerjee was always the full shareholder, however we can meet that level of scrutiny if you wish. In addition, I can research newspaper articles from that era. It would be nice to put to rest any further claims to authorship of Chippendales.

If it gives the article fairness and we want to be fair and neutral, I agree to state Mr Nahin's self described claim at the end of the article as a "later claim", but I think it needs to include that it is "unverified" unless Mr Nahin can provide documented proof.

But I will further research Easebe Enterprises articles of incorporation. Thanks. Ericmalibu 17:17, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I also have video footage interview of Banerjee telling how he started Chippendales himself dated 1986. This was featured on NBC "Mysteries & Scandals". Perhaps you can advise how we can share this as source material. Thanks. Ericmalibu 17:00, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

ADD EASEBE ENTERPRISES AS STEVE BANERJEE

Information to be added or removed: Steve "Somen" Banerjee created Easebe Enterprises in 1975 when he owned Mobile gas stations in Playa Del Rey. Easebe Enterprises is listed with the Secretary of State of California as being a corporation owned by Steve and Irene Banerjee. In 1977, Easebe Enterprises is listed by the California Alcohol Beverage Control board to be the owner of the club at 3739 Overland Ave Culver City, California. This club was originally Destiny II but then changed the name to Chippendales in 1979. Shareholder ownership of Easebe Enterprises, a California corporation, held by Banerjee is reaffirmed by the U.S. Court of Appeals 2nd Circuit in 1998. Explanation of issue: Researched incorporation with California Secretary of State and researched the California ABC board to show the background to Easebe Enterprises and Steve Banerjee's ownership. Researched U.S. Court of Appeals, 2nd Circuit listing Banerjee as owner of Easebe Enterprises. References supporting change:

Secretary of State of California document Easebe Enterprises

File:EASEBE ENTERPRISES 1975.png

Shows incorporation by before Destiny II purchase.

I would appreciate that there be a discussion of this heavily researched request by any editors involved and not summarily dismissed. Please if you have dismissed a prior request to edit by me, do not patrol my request to edit to summarily dismiss again. I think this topic deserves the attention of a neutral and uninvolved editor. If I cannot receive a fair and impartial review, I will have to seek a 3O. Thank you for your consideration. Ericmalibu 21:28, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Ericmalibu:. Hi. Following on from our discussions above, I'm happy for you to make the edit. --John B123 (talk) 22:37, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@John B123: Thank you John B123. Ericmalibu 23:01, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Have removed, is an extreme amount of detail that is irrelevant to mention in an encyclopedia if no secondary sources have thought this to be important enough to mention. The article is fully clear with its current wording of saying that Banerjee founded it. We also never use government primary sources like this. "...this heavily researched request", this is what we are referring to with no original research. – Thjarkur (talk) 17:57, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

{ping|Þjarkur|Thjarkur} Hello. May I cross reference a July 30th, 1994 Los Angeles Times newspaper article to the statement that "Banerjee owned Chippendales"? https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-07-30-me-21593-story.html Thank you Ericmalibu 15:49, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

​Hi, the above ping didn't get through since it was missing some curly braces ({{}}). I don't think it's necessary to mention specifically that he owned it, the article already says that he founded it, bought it, and ran it (which is the same thing the LAtimes source says). – Thjarkur (talk) 14:33, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

COI EDITOR

Just an FYI for all concerned. I am a COI editor on the Chippendales page because of my past employment. However I do have editing authority over any non-controversial elements including removing vandalism and cleaning up grammar as per my admin. I intend to make edit requests using the request template. I intend to make sure this page is neutral and fair but also verified. Thank you Ericmalibu 04:25, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Request to Remove OR (Original Research) "The skit was discussed . . ." Under Popular Culture

Request to remove the sentence in Patrick Swayze and Chris Farley's "Saturday Night Live" Chippendales spoof skit. The skit was discussed during a horseback ride between Nahin and Swayze. Explanation of issue: Statement written by Nahin, himself about himself is COI and compromises OR (Original Research) without verification. There is no independent verification of this event. References supporting change: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chippendales&diff=prev&oldid=579066691

Ericmalibu 17:27, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

 Done – Thjarkur (talk) 17:59, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

@Þjarkur and Thjarkur: Thank you Thjarkur. Ericmalibu 19:00, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Discussion to Remove Kindle, Self Published Reference Material

Hello fellow Wikipedia Editors. I would like to open a discussion to remove self published, Kindle book material from the Chippendales article. Specifically "K. Scot Macdonald and Patrick MontesDeOca: Deadly Dance: The Chippendales Murders Kindle Edition" The title and author's name are spelled wrong. Do we allow Kindle self published works to be listed as reference materials? Ericmalibu 19:54, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Þjarkur: Hello Þjarkur. Thank you for your excellent tutelage on this page. Can you answer whether Kindle books are valid references on Wikipedia? I wanted to propose removing a Kindle book on the Chippendales page because it was self published. Regards. Ericmalibu 14:06, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry for not responding before. The book is also available in paperback, so the issue is not with Kindle. Both versions are published by Kerrera House Press, which seems be be run by Macdonald so I would say it is without doubt self published so not a reliable source. --John B123 (talk) 15:25, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for that clarifcation John B123 Ericmalibu 17:17, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Discussion to Add Monday 13 December 1993 Independent Article: Banerjee Arrest

Hi Wikipedians, I would like to open a discussion to add a reference link to the British Independent Monday 13 December 1993 article on Steve Banerjee's arrest. Is this a valid source for stating some facts related to the Chippendales owner and founder's arrest? https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/cyanide-in-the-beefcake-somen-banerjee-inventor-of-the-chippendales-stands-accused-of-much-more-than-1467195.html Many thanks for an open discussion. Ericmalibu 14:25, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Chippendales History Vandalized - Notice to Restore to August 29, 2020

@Þjarkur:

@John B123:

Hello Wikipedians. Sadly the history page for Chippendales has been vandalized multiple times in December to assert an undocumented narrative to promote certain individuals. Multiple entries have been made by editors with no history and some with COI. Inserting IMBD reference links which is not a Wikipedia valid reference. I am correcting the vandalism and restoring the page to August 29, 2020 that a senior editor had established as a clean reference page. Even though I have COI with this subject matter I can remove vandalism by restoring the page to a point in time established by senior editors. I will wait for feedback and discussion before doing this. Please comment if you have an issue with restoration. Thank you Ericmalibu 14:07, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

 Done – Thjarkur (talk) 14:25, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

@Þjarkur:

@John B123:

Hello Wikipedians: The history page for Chippendales has been vandalized again. Inserting one's self with unreferenced statements. I believe this editor has been advised on their talk page regarding COI changes inserting their name and IMdb link. I am requesting to restore the page to August 29, 2020. I would like to apply for page protection because this vandalism appears to be routine. Ericmalibu 09:13, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

@Cullen328: Hello Cullen328. Same editor under anonymous mobile phone vandalize the page again even though they have been blocked. Adding same unreferenced self promotional statement. Propose requesting page protection. Thank you. Ericmalibu 03:27, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected for six months. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:03, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

STEVE MERRITT AND CHIPPENDALES

Recently someone has cut all references to Steve Merritt's vital contributions to the history of Chippendales. Together with his partner Mark Donnelly, Merritt had the musical "Dream Street" running at the Dunes in Las Vegas from 1983 to 1987. In 1984 Steve Banerjee saw the show, loved it, and approached them to come up with a more theatrical version of Chippendales that would appeal to a wider and more "upscale" audience of women. Merritt and Donnelly then created a Broadway-style format for Chippendales with an MC, lavish dance numbers, sets and costumes. These changes were instramental in turning Chippendales into a world-wide phenomenon. When Steve Banerjee was about to go on trial, his wife Irene called Donnelly and asked him to testify for Steve at his trial, to which he agreed. Unfortunately, Banerjee hung himself in prison before he could be tried, and Merritt died of AIDS soon after. It is profoundly unfair to neglect his vital contribution to Chippendales, and as he is no longer able to protest for himself, I am here to do so for him. He deserves better.

I am not sure who wrote this but I differ with the historical perspective. Steve Banerjee had already formed an international phenomena before hiring Steve Merritt. Banerjee's impetus to hiring Merritt was to have a show that he owned entirely himself. The references to Merritt can be added but where are your citations or references? Also it would be helpful if you sign your post. Thanks. Ericmalibu 03:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

The original Wikipedia article on Chippendales has been so bastardized and mutilated over the years it is now useless. It's unfortunate. My name is Mark Donnelly. I was Steve Merritt's writing/producing partner on three stage musicals and worked with him on the re-imagining of Chippendales. While I'm sure everyone has differening views of how, when, what and why things happened, and to what effect, I was there and can only offer my own personal history. Steve Merritt came to me in 1984 and said he had been asked by Steve Banerjee to see if he could come up with a way to make Chippendales more theatrical and appealing to a more "upscale" audience. I had never heard of the show, but when Merritt told me it was male strippers for a female only audience, I was intrigued. I suggested to him that we do a sort of reverse "Village People," aimed at women, with the strippers in various costumes - doctor, fireman, Indian chief, etc - and we took it to Banerjee, who approved. But, he had strict standards for the strippers. They had to be smooth (naturally hairless) over 6' tall, no moles or freckles or any kind of disfigurement. In other words, physically perfect. Merritt then spent weeks scouring the beach of Santa Monica and Venice looking for candidates - "Hey bud, want to be a stripper?" When I saw them file into the theater the first time I thought they were the most ridiculously beautiful men I had ever seen. They were not trained dancers, but Merritt had a unique talent for teaching untrained men how to "move" beautifully, and soon they were stripping like pros. He then added George Solomon as MC, 6 professional back up dancers, lavish costumes, sets and lighting, and the show went on to become a world-wide phenomenon. I knew all the strippers, including and especially the awesome Mike Rapp, and I also became friends with Irene Banerjee, Steve's wife, who asked me to be a character witness for her husband when he was in prison, but before I could do so he committed suicide. Steve Merritt continued to work with Chippendales, traveling the world, until he died in 1993 at the age of 47.

Please be aware of the rules of Wikipedia. You have to sign your posts. And you cannot use Wikipedia to make personal attacks or "out" someone you do not agree with. Please refrain from using personal names of editors or bashing them. The Talk page is for civil discourse on topics in an objective and courteous forum. It's OK to disagree but disagree with respect. Thank you. Ericmalibu 20:24, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Chippendales History Vandalized - Notice to Restore to April 4, 2021

@Cullen328: Hello Cullen328. Same editor as before hijacked the Chippendales history page with multiple original research entries adding the same name without reference. This time under an anonymous handle. If you compare versions to April 4, 2021 you can see the only additions were this individual's name. Request an editor to revert back to April 5, 2021. Request protection again. I thought this was too much vandalism for me to revert so I wanted to request help. Thank you. Ericmalibu 16:03, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Ericmalibu. There have been a lot of edits since last April and most look OK to me. You need to be more specific about what you see as vandalism. Cullen328 (talk) 17:12, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

After looking closer, I removed some promotional content and semi-protecred the article for one year. Cullen328 (talk) 17:28, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

@Cullen328: Hello Cullen328. Thank you. Those were the edits I was going to highlight as promotional. Thank you for the protection. Ericmalibu 18:06, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Confusion about registration date

This sentence is confusing “ In 1980, Chippendales successfully registered its "Cuffs and Collar" uniform as a trademark in 2003”

What year was it registered? 1980 or 2003? 98.37.252.86 (talk) 07:27, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 December 2022

Please change the single instance of the name "Nahin" to the phrase "Chippendales attorney Bruce Nahin". Thanks. 67.188.1.213 (talk) 05:25, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I would like to dispute this proposed change. And in fact ask to remove the name “Nahin” from the article because there is no citation to a verifiable reference such as a newspaper article or published book during the time. There are references to other attorneys (see citation 10) The document this citation references specifically states Stephen W. Feingold of Day Pitney LLP for Chippendales USA is the administering attorney for Chippendales . Ericmalibu 10:33, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:52, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Request to remove and replace Nahin in article with attorney Stephen W. Feingold

@Paper9oll: I respectfully request in the interest of making the Chippendales article; legal section more factual to replace the (attorney) "Nahin" in relation to the Chippendales trademark application with attorney "Stephen W. Feingold of Day Pitney LLP" which is referenced in the #10 citation that has already been added in this article. I am assuming this issue needs to be discussed for consensus. Please advise if this is a simple edit or controversial edit. Thank you Ericmalibu 19:13, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

@Ericmalibu Please discuss this changes with regular editors of this article instead. The edit request was rejected for now (not permanent) because you opposed the requested changes initiated by IP hence please establish consensus between both of your and/or within the regular editors of this article before filing for another edit request. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 04:11, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedia editors, I would like to open a discussion to modify the legal section of the Chippendales article to more accurately reflect the facts. Mr Nahin was listed as the party that was responsible for the Chippendales trademark. However upon inspection of the citation (#10), the legal party that was responsible was Mr Stephen W Feingold of Day Pitney LLP. I would like the article to reflect this fact and remove Mr Nahin's name and replace it with Mr Feingold's name. Can we have a discussion about this? Thank you Ericmalibu 15:29, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Chippendales History Changed without Discussion - Request to Restore

@Cullen328: @Þjarkur: @Paper9oll: Hello Cullen328, Þjarkur, Paper9oll I was trying to raise a discussion in Talk about changing the Chippendales legal page to remove Mr Bruce Nahin as the attorney of record with trademark registration and replace with Mr Stephen W Feingold which is verified in the #10 citation in the article to gain a consensus when an editor arbitrarily added Mr Nahin's name several times without citation including adding Mr Nahin as a partner with Steve Banerjee which is unsupported. Citations #7 & #8 use unreliable sources. L.A. Magazine, Vice News and an online publication called The Drill Online. These changes are unsupported but in concert with past vandalism of this page promoting this individual. Could you revert the page and reinforce the article protection? Regards Ericmalibu 11:52, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Ericmalibu, I have reverted and pageblocked the editor who is promoting Bruce Nahin. Cullen328 (talk) 16:47, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Question Edits Chippendales

@0mtwb9gd5wx: Hi 0mtwb9gd5wx, You made some edits on a semi protected page where there was suppose to be a consensus discussion on the Talk page about adding the name Bruce Nahin to the article on Chippendales. You cited questionable unreliable sources to reference as a citation and only added his name. One was adding Bruce Nahin as a partner. Which was based on an article interview with him from two online publications that are unreliable sources. The second was to add his first name to a legal matter where the attorney of record was Stephen W Feingold. This was suppose to be a consensus discussion. Also Newsweek magazine, a reliable source, of November 29, 2022 does not mention Bruce Nahin as partner or attorney. Could you explain please? Thank you. Ericmalibu 15:10, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

This is a false description of my edits 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 13:22, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Original Chippendale's Show

After Paul Emceed the first "Strip Contest.". I was brought in and began and seeing the contest and eventually changed it from a contest into a show. Part of my deal with Steve was that if I wrote this show and Emcee the one night a week Show...I would own the rights to it. I copyrighted the original Chippendale's Show" ... which featured women's fantasies with costumes by Tony and choreography by Enrique Flores. I was the MC from 1979 to 1982 Nick didn't get there till late 1981. Nick came in and tried to steal the show for me. I refused to sign over the Show. I sued them and it took 12 years to get them into court. I won and own the rights to the original Chippendale show which Steve continued to use with Nick in LA and in New York. Thru 1995. I won my case for copyright infringement.

If you go to YouTube and look at " For Ladies Only". You will see me performing my material. Nick was hired by Steve while I was out filming that movie.

Most of the Acts were created by me. The format and Emcee dialog was created by me. I have all the paperwork and National and international articles were written way before Nick came on board. I have the contracts about the use of my show. Also the court papers. Richard C Barsh The true creator and Emcee of Chippendale's. 2600:1702:9F1:1F20:D09E:6CB6:69B6:316F (talk) 03:15, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

For purposes of contributing to Wikipedia we cannot directly edit or contribute this material because of our COI. But we can discuss and create a consensus to add this information. However it must be source material otherwise it's just original research. My goal is to tell an honest and true story of Chippendales that is documented, however we must respect the rules of Wikipedia. Please feel free to discuss Chippendales related topics so that we can work together better to contribute. Ericmalibu 03:52, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

ADD Books Request

@Ericmalibu:

• Kline, Troy; Bice, Joe (December 1998). Chippendales: The Naked Truth. Pacifica Publishing. ISBN 978-0-9668096-0-2.
• Rubalcaba, Stacy Rae (1999). In the Kitchen with the Chippendales: More Than 70 Romantic Recipes to Tempt, Tease and Tantalize. Courage Books. ISBN 978-0-7624-0569-5.
• Sterry, David Henry (2007). Master of Ceremonies: A True Story of Love, Murder, Roller Skates & Chippendales. Canongate. ISBN 978-1-84195-876-7.
• Macdonald, K. Scot; MontesDeOca, Patrick (10 June 2014). Deadly Dance: The Chippendales Murders. Kerrera House Press. ISBN 978-0-9916653-2-7.

0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 13:20, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

@0mtwb9gd5wx:One of the books listed is a self published book and therefor not a reliable source. Kerrera House Press is author Scot Macdonald and therefor is a self published book. It has not to my knowledge been properly vetted. I dispute using material from this publication as a cited source. Ericmalibu 14:04, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

So will you add the other ones? One is the formatted current book.

* {{cite book |last1=Kline |first1=Troy |last2=Bice |first2=Joe |title=Chippendales: The Naked Truth |date=December 1998 |publisher=Pacifica Publishing |isbn=978-0-9668096-0-2 |language=en}}

* {{cite book |last1=Rubalcaba |first1=Stacy Rae |title=In the Kitchen with the Chippendales: More Than 70 Romantic Recipes to Tempt, Tease and Tantalize |date=1999 |publisher=Courage Books |isbn=978-0-7624-0569-5 |language=en}}

* {{cite book |last1=Sterry |first1=David Henry |title=Master of Ceremonies: A True Story of Love, Murder, Roller Skates & Chippendales |date=2007 |publisher=Canongate |isbn=978-1-84195-876-7 |language=en}} :::

.... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 17:17, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your request 0mtwb9gd5wx Let me review your amended request. I am familiar with David Henry Sterry's book. Regards

Ericmalibu 17:24, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Contemporary source for Bruce Nahin as a Chippendales attorney

First, let me say I have no personal interest in this article. I requested an edit simply to clarify which "Nahin" was being referenced in the "Legal Affairs" section of the article, not to support any of the other material in that section, never mind the claims Bruce Nahin has made regarding his role in the history of the club.

That said, it took me only a minute to find a contemporary mention in a reliable source confirming that Bruce Nahin was an attorney representing Chippendales, a Los Angeles Times article from February 1985 titled "Chippendales Agrees to Policy on Hiring, Admitting Blacks":

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1985-02-12-me-3874-story.html

There's also an article from Time magazine that refers to "Banerjee and his partner, lawyer Bruce Nahin" but I think it's a case of a usually reliable source publishing an unreliable article because, hey, it's only an entertainment story, it doesn't have to be true. :-)

https://time.com/6235751/welcome-to-chippendales-hulu-true-story/

So I think it's reasonable to mention Nahin in the "Legal Affairs" section, but additional references would be required to support the specific claims in that section. (Specifically, I think the confusion between "in 1980" and "in 2003" in that same sentence must be resolved-- most easily by removing "in 1980"-- or the sentence simply removed, which would remove any reference to Nahin from the article, and that's fine with me.) 67.188.1.213 (talk) 20:06, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi Anonymous IP 67.188.1.213. Thank you for writing your contribution.Regards Ericmalibu 22:04, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

There is no reason to mention Nahin's disbarment in this article as it is outside the scope of his involvement in Chippendales. Otherwise I appreciate that you seem to be agreeing with my edit request, and I have no opinion on any of the larger issues you raise except that I agree with you that the article needs much improvement. 67.188.1.213 (talk) 19:43, 12 January 2023 (UTC

Hello Anonymous. Just like if you had a director or producer who worked for Chippendales and they later went on to win an Oscar or Emmy you would say it's appropriate and reasonable to include winning an award in their career e.g. ". . . later to go on to win an Oscar". It adds perspective about the subject's career in relation to their work. In any case, the reliable source was the Los Angeles Times and I pulled that up in 3 seconds with multiple articles about Mr Nahin's legal history. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-jan-30-me-briefs30.2-story.html I propose adding the information respectfully and in the interest of transparency and fairness from a neutral point of view. Regards Ericmalibu 20:43, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I've already explained that I am not interested, never mind "intently interested," in Mr. Nahin. I had never heard of him before I happened to notice his last name appearing just once in the article without a first name or title, so I looked up who was meant and simply suggested adding three words ("Chippendales attorney Bruce") before the name to add necessary context.

No one is contesting, and reliable sources do confirm, that those three words are correct, and yet the same defect remains in the article right now: the name "Nahin" is just floating there.

You appear to be on some kind of mission to spread a larger message about Mr. Nahin in ways that are incompatible with the policies and purposes of Wikipedia. I think this is bad, but I'm still not interested. Just leave me out of it. 67.188.1.213 (talk) 21:33, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello Anonymous. Firstly, I do not control the editorial for this article. Secondly, it's against Wikipedia policy to attack editors with smears, inuendo, malicious intent or false accusations. There is no "mission". Good luck Ericmalibu 01:14, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello Anonymous. I contacted the writer to that Time magazine article you referenced. Ms Carlin admitted that the article is flawed with factual errors and will be contacting the editors of Time magazine to issue a retraction. I am sorry but this is not good source material. Ericmalibu 00:29, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Add News Source - Gloria Allred, Attorney vs Steve Banerjee, Owner of Chippendales July 1, 1988

Propose to add as a source July 1, 1988 Los Angeles Times article listing Gloria Allred, attorney for plaintiff in discrimination lawsuit against owner of Chippendales, Steve Banerjee. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-07-01-me-6301-story.html Ericmalibu 08:44, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 January 2023

Please refer to inspired film full monty 31.111.78.54 (talk) 14:53, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I do not understand the requested edit. Refer what to the inspired film "Full Monty"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:387:C:5010:0:0:0:3 (talk) 15:26, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:57, 16 January 2023 (UTC)