Talk:Chortitza Colony

Gran Duke Michael

It is not possible for Gran Duke Michael of Russia to habee sold land to the mennonites, because he was not born ill 1878. --Bagratun (talk) 15:04, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Was linked to wrong Michael; now corrected. ✤ JonHarder ^talk 22:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

violence

1. Volin: The second fault of Makhno and of many of his intimates -- both commanders and others -- was their behaviour towards women. Especially when drunk, these men let themselves indulge in shameful and even odious activities, going as far as orgies in which certain women were forced to participate. It goes without saying that these acts of debauchery produced a demoralising effect on those who knew about them, and Makhno's good name suffered from this.

2. THE FATE OF MENNONIT ES IN UKRAINE AND THE CRIMEA DURING SOVIET COLLECTIVIZATION AND THE FAMINE (1930-1933) COLIN PETER NEUFELDT: malaria, cholera. and typhus, Makhno's troops infected the Mennonite women that they raped and the Mennonite families from whorn they demanded food and lodging.

3. An uptodate master thesis: The Makhnos of Memory: Mennonite and Makhnovist Narratives of the Civil War in Ukraine, 1917-1921 by Sean David Patterson. It discusses a lot about the anarchist rapes In hand with reports of murder and torture were the reports of rape. The rape of Mennonite women in particularly is stated as a motivating factor for joining the Selbstschutz. Indeed, Makhnovist raids became synonymous with rape. By 1920 some 100 women and girls were being treated for syphilis in Chortitza alone.66 Apologists for the Makhnovists may suggest that a whole host of armies equally guilty of horrendous atrocities were present at various times in the colonies, but for the women who suffered the attacks there is no doubt as to their rapists’ identity. Furthermore, the accounts given all correspond with the known periods of Makhnovist occupation.67

4. Rempel, David G.; Carlson, Cornelia Rempel (2003). A Mennonite Family in Tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union

How, they wondered, could God have permitted the murder of so many innocent people, the rape of defenceless women, and the commission of so many other acts of unconscionable brutality?

5. Playground of Violence: Mennonites and Makhnovites in the Time of War and Revolution Mikhail Akulov The Kazakh-British Technical University, Almaty, Kazakhstan What ensued, however, was the reign of semi-indiscriminate terror. Extensive is the dolorous panoply of the Makhnovite murder scenes: Eichenfeld, where more than 80 colonists were shot, Orlovo with 44 victims, Hochfeld with 19, etc. (Venger, 2011, p. 10). 22 To those executed must be added the uncounted victims of rape theft, physical and moral abuse. Typhus brought into colonies by the infected Makhnovite armies further decimated the villagers, cementing the Mennonite impression of facing the Satan himself and giving rise to the narrative of martyrdom (Patterson, 2013, p. 25).

can we add something or is it a taboo topic?Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 18:12, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

If they are reliable, WP:SECONDARY sources, it's fair. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:26, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes they are. They are from the most up-to-date historians. If it is needed i can bring more. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 13:24, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

I made a template for a reference to the article "Playground of Violence: Mennonites and Makhnovites in the Time of War and Revolution", but I'm not sure that this is a high quality publication, see here: [1]--Nicoljaus (talk) 19:38, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

There were problems with it and I removed it. Neither source was secondary though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:55, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

sorry, i didn't understand what was the problem. The paper is from a prominent historian. If the link is from a torrent-like site we can remove only the link but we can leave the citation. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 08:28, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

I know nothing about the author of the article, but those article was published in the doubtful journal (see: Wikipedia:Vanity_and_predatory_publishing#Use_on_Wikipedia). It's better to use his publications in more decent journals.--Nicoljaus (talk) 15:01, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Cv +Akulov . He has also PhD from Harvard in the topic of Makhno. But if its not accepted, i will find something else. Thank you about your time and your help.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 15:40, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

What about this book: Here?

i don't have full access in this book.  But it goes the same way as the previous papers. Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 13:39, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

It explicitly states that the atrocities were committed NOT ONLY BY MAKHNOVISTS.--Lute88 (talk) 13:55, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Great! Please, add it into the article.Αντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 14:06, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

That would be WP:WEIGHT. Why don't you create an article Violence against Mennonites during the Civil War in Russia? Make sure it wouldn't be an attack page.--Lute88 (talk) 16:35, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Two references is enough. See WP:OVERREF. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:37, 14 April 2019 (UTC)