Talk:Christina Milian/GA1

GA Review

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I will be reviewing this article. I plan on finishing the review, hopefully, within the next few days. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 07:42, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

• The lead section seems a bit too cluttered. Per WP:LEAD and the length of the article, the lead section should be broken up into about three or four paragraphs, highlighting the main parts of the article. Maybe you could remove some of the information that is redundant (i.e., mentioned in other places in the article) and summarize it so that it is a little easier to read. Perhaps put more emphasis on the albums Milian has released and her most successful singles as well as her acting career rather than focusing on what was a "commercial success" and what was not.

• I revised the lead (only some minor changes) and added/moved references. Let me know if it's okay with you. But as of now, consider the lead section finished. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 06:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• The lead is looking great; I'm okay with it. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 07:06, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• There is a sentence that doesn't state what the reference says: "...featured Cool & Dre on the majority of the production." The reference states that only Dre of Cool & Dre participated on the album.

• You must have missed it: "...of the producing duo Cool & Dre, who handled the majority of production on the album". Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 11:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• I suppose that is what it meant. Okay, I'll strike it out. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 12:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

• Filmography: Do we need her entire filmography displayed? I hardly believe that "Additional voices" (A Bug's Life), "Girl at dance" (The Wood), "Young Lady in Hallway" (The Steve Harvey Show), etc. are pertinent to her career. In addition, a "cameo" appearance is usually done by a well-known figure and her cameos in 1999 (The Wood and American Pie) aren't really cameos since she wasn't well known back then. Also, maybe we can break up the table into two different tables with "Film" and "Television" subheadings, with details on what episode she appeared in (season #, episode #, episode name) when she was on a television show. Just a few suggestions. Let me know what you think. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 08:45, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• I would rather have one table for both, and it probably doesn't really matter which episodes she appeared in. Her minor apprearances aren't that important, but do they have to be removed? I would like to have most of her appearances up there, but I wouldn't really mind removing them. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 00:31, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Okay, I see what you're saying. My only reason for suggesting episode details is so that people who are interested in her have an easy way to know what episode, specifically, Milian was in. I do believe that the small appearances should be removed. You have mentioned them in the article already, so I don't particularly see a reason for them to be in the filmography. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 01:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Any others I should remove? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 02:22, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Nope. Looks good. So, filmography is done. Discography is fine.

• "Music career": Do you think it might look better if you list the album name first and then the years after for the subheadings? For example, instead of subheading "2000–2002: Christina Milian", you could change it to "Christina Milian: 2000–2002". – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 23:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• That's not a bad idea, but I modelled the subheadings after Gwen Stefani, which is a FA. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 00:31, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• It's a matter of preference. The Gwen Stefani does have that format and the Angelina Jolie article (which is also an FA, albeit Jolie being an actor) has the format I suggested. So, I don't believe it matters. If you want to change it, go ahead. If not, just strike out my original comment and leave it. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 01:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• I changed it, and I think it looks better. :) Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 02:22, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Non-musical projects": I would say that most of this section focuses on her acting career. What about changing the heading to "Acting career" instead of the current heading name? – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 23:52, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• It was originally acting career, however I changed it to include the part about her writing book. This way, I don't have to create stubby subsections for everything she does. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 00:31, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Okay, good explanation. However, could you move the couple of sentences regarding her book to another paragraph? Currently, it's directly in between the specifications of her acting career and kind of breaks up the flow of the section. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 01:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Done, I think. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 02:22, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Looks good. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 05:05, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

1. B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

• You most likely know this, but just in case you don't: when it comes to numbers, it is perfectly fine to either (a) spell the numbers out or (b) write the 0-9 digits in numerals with 10-99 being spelled out. Either way, it needs to be consistent. There are some places, particularly when music charts are mentioned, in which two-digit numbers are spelled out and written in numerals. I didn't want to change it myself because I don't know what style you prefer, but one style needs to be chosen. Other than that, I don't think I can see any other MOS issues. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 10:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• I thought it was the other way around, i.e. 1-9 spelled out, and 10-99 in numerals. Right? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 10:55, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• I stand corrected. Yes, 0-9 should be spelled out and 10-99 in numerals. My apologies; exams have drained my brain. Still, whatever style you choose, it needs to be consistent throughout the article. Also, I went through each section and made minor changes to the prose and punctuation, etc. I figured it would be easier for me to just do it rather than list everything here. Go over the edits and let me know what you think. Once you do that and have updated the numbers situation, this criteria is a go. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 11:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks for the copyedit. I believe that the number problem is now fixed. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 12:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• It looks like you have looked over all the edits and the numbers situation is fixed. Criteria 1 is finished. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 12:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

1. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

• There are some quotes or phrases/words in quotations throughout the article that need to have references. If none can be found, they need to be removed or revised. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 23:47, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Could you please point these out? I haven't put a ref after each quote because I think it looks messy, so the first ref after the quote is probably the ref for it. Do you want me to place a ref after each quote? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 00:35, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• I will work on finding these for you later tonight and list them below the "References" subsection below. A reference must be provided after each quote, unless they are two separate quotes that have been integrated into the same sentence (and then the citation is put after the sentence, if that makes any sense). If you feel that it is still too "messy", you may have to remove some of the quotes that are not relatively significant and revise the sentence. But every quote has to be referenced, especially on BLPs. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 01:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
• I'm a dork. I totally missed your explanation (i.e., the first reference after the quote is most likely the reference for said quote). I have left a message on DanaBoomer's talk page asking her if this is okay. I'm sure it is, but I just want to make sure. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 10:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

1. B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   See comments in "References" subsection below.

   C. It contains no original research:

   Regarding the lead section, what is considered a "commercial success" in the music industry? – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 08:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

2. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

3. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

4. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

5. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

6. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Placing the aricle on hold. The review is complete. Just go over the last few references. Also, you need to move some of the references so that they are directly after the quotes per the policy that Dana Boomer stated at the bottom of the review. I understand that this can make the article appear "messy" and the only way around that is to pick the most important quotes to keep and make the less important quotes into prose so you don't have to reference all of them. It's been a joy to work with you.

Beautiful work, Cornucopia. I am passing the article. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 12:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

References

Criteria 2a:

• Reference 1: Takes me to the "Allmusic" homepage, not to the "Christina Milian Biography".
  • I'm not too sure how to fix it. The url: http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&searchlink=CHRISTINA%7CMILIAN&sql=11:fnfuxqrkldje~T1 includes a | which interferes with the referencing. I have tried to place a around it, but it does not work. Any ideas? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
    • I fixed it. We'll just have to sidestep from the regular citation template for this one. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 05:58, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
• References 4 and 5: Do not specifically state that It's About Time was "not a commercial success."
  • I removed that line from the lead. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 06:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
• Reference 7: Does not take me to the search results for "Christina Milian". It is also cited twice when it doesn't need to be (since it is citing the exact same information).
  • I don't know how to fix this, but I have an idea. I could change the link to the search section, and in small writing tell the reader to type "Milian" under artist. Would that work? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 11:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Sounds fine to me. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 12:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
• Reference 10: There are words such as "alleges" and "reportedly" in this reference but I don't see that her rep stated that she left over "created differences". Is it possible to find another reference detailing why she left Island Def Jam? Should it even be included in the lead section, or do you think that it can be moved to another part of the article?
  • I have found a better ref. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
    • So I assume that you prefer to keep this tidbit in the lead section? – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 05:58, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Yes, I guess it is fairly important. Is the lead better now? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 06:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
        • See my comment in the prose section above. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 06:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
• Reference 11: I don't see where the website says The Best of Christina Milian was released only in Japan.
  • I removed that section; insufficient sourcing. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• "Early life" section:
  • "...and when her family realized that she was a talented actor, she became determined to pursue an entertainment career." I'm not quite sure why the reference after this sentence is here. It seems unnecessary.
    • I think that's the best reference for that line. Do you think that ref 9 adequately covers it? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
      • The Yahoo! Biography goes into good detail about her early life. Maybe that one? Or is that the one you're speaking of and it just got shifted down (it's now Reference 10, I believe).
        • I'm not really understanding this request. All of the refs in this section are needed, I think. The refs that after the lines are the ones that best source the info. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

• "Christina Milian, 2000–2002" section:
  • Reference 15: "The single was another international hit, reaching number three in the UK and the Netherlands..." Not seeing the Netherlands mentioned in this reference.
    • Wrong reference; Netherelands is mentioned the next one. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Reference 19: "Released on October 21, 2001..." The reference says the album was released on October 9, 2001.
    • Fixed Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Reference 21: "...and number 51 in Germany." I'm not seeing the Germany numbers in the reference.
    • Can't find a better ref for Germany. Removed and replaced with Sweden. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

• "It's About Time, 2003–2005" section:
  • Reference 13: "...and she recorded songs with "Darkchild"..." Reference does not say she worked with "Darkchild" on It's About Time.
    • Added better ref. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Reference 32: "...and received a Grammy Award nomination for "Best Contemporary R&B Album" in 2005" and "...earned a Grammy Award nomination for "Best Rap/Sung Collaboration"." The reference doesn't state what specific Grammy award the album and the song were nominated for.
    • Found a better ref. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:52, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  • References 36 and 37: Are there URLs for these links? Or were they taken from a newspaper?
    • You need to subscribe to these, so I just used cite news. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
      • You should probably at least provide the URLs in case someone actually is a subscriber and wants to take a look at the article. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 07:52, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
        • Done. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Bryan Cox: This link takes me to the article of a football player. Is it possibly Bryan-Michael Cox?
    • Good one, I fixed it. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  • "...and she recorded songs with ... Cory Rooney, Warryn Campbell, Bryan Cox and Polli Paul." The last reference (#27) lists all of these people. If you wish, you can take out the reference after Campbell's name.
    • Removed. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

• "So Amazin', 2006–2007" section:
  • Reference 44: Clicked on it four times; half the time, it takes me to a dead link and the other half takes me to a article about "Audrina's Tattoo".
    • E! has undergone some changes. I'll see if I can find another ref. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
    • Done. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Reference 49: Takes me the Maxim.com homepage.
    • Fixed, but check again to be sure. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

• "Non-musical projects" section:
  • "Milian first significant acting role was offered by Disney Channel to join The Mickey Mouse Club, however she did not accept and opted to star as a reporter on Movie Surfers." You only need one reference for this and I would keep reference 55 (the AskMen.com interview) since it is more detailed, but you have to change the URL of that reference to the first page of the interview (since the first page has the corresponding information).
    • Done. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Reference 61: "...which was rated as the sixth most watched show for the week on cable, with 4.4 million viewers." Reference does not mention Snowglobe.
    • Removed. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

• "Personal life" section:
  • Reference 6: "She has said that there are a lot of people who young girls look up to, but "at the end of the day you have to be your own person and love yourself."" Reference takes me to the Herald Mail home page.
    • Works fine for me. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Maybe that website was having issues when I checked it because it now works fine for me, too. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 05:44, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

• "Awards and nominations" section:
  • References 79 and 80: "Imagen Foundation Award for Best TV Actress for Snowglobe" You only need one reference with this.
    • I would rather keep both, in case one of the links goes dead. That usually happens with award pages. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Okay. Sounds good. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 05:44, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Quotes

Early life

• ..."in hopes of landing a wider range of acting roles."
• ..."it took some time to convince them."
• ..."didn't have too many friends".
• ..."always wanted to be in the record business"...
  • Done. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 11:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It's About Time, 2003–2005

• ..."between six months to a year"...
• ..."it's a new me."
  • Done. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 11:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

So Amazin', 2006–2007

• ..."found a really great chemistry with Cool and Dre"...
• ..."a mutual decision"...
• ..."gotten a lot of offers"...
  • Fixed or removed. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 11:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Future music, 2008

• ..."love to do something with [producer] Timbaland."
• ..."hint[ed] at potential collaborative surprises down the line."
  • Done. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 11:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Personal life

• ..."a big sister to foster children,"...
• She said that she had "never been rewarded that way and never been acknowledged like that. That was really nice of them, and I was happy I was able to show up for the kids." In this sentence, I would write it something like, She said, "I’ve never been rewarded that way and never been acknowledged like that. That was really nice of them, and I was happy I was able to show up for the kids."
• ..."[has] no idea who Eric West is".
• ..."make it work".
  • Good idea, fixed. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 11:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Here are some quotes that I believe can be revised into prose. I don't believe that they add anything more whether they are in quotes or are written in prose. Let me know what you think. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 10:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't realize there were so many redundant quotes. Thanks for taking the time and naming them all, and I belive they have all been fixed/merged. Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 11:41, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It's funny because I didn't realize it either until I looked over the article again. There actually weren't as many as I thought. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 12:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Comments from DanaBoomer

Hi all... I just wanted to introduce myself to Cornucopia, as I'm lurking around this review. Cornucopia, Ms. Sarita asked me to be her "mentor" for her first few GA reviews, so I'm going to be hanging around, reading everything, and maybe commenting a little bit. So far, from what I've seen, Ms. Sarita, you have done a great job with the review. Very thorough, especially with the references. Nice work, and I'll keep lurking. I have this page watchlisted, so drop me a note here if you've got any questions for me regarding this review. Dana boomer (talk) 14:32, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, cool. Nice to know that this page is receiving extra attention. ;) Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to put my response to the references down here, so that it doesn't get lost in the constructive discussion above :) Per WP:REF, you need to have a reference directly after a quote. I know it gets messy, but this is what the rules say... Another suggestion (brought up by Ms. Sarita on my talk page) would be to integrate some of the less necessary quotes into the prose so that you didn't need so many refs in the middle of sentences. Dana boomer (talk) 13:34, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I know about that rule, but I think it's more of a rule of thumb. Have a look at the recently promoted FA's: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Featured log/October 2008. I think most, if not all, have quotes that are not directly followed by a ref. A specific example: The Other Woman. Reviewers found several prose problems, however none said anything about the ref problem. If FA reviewers do not find this to be a problem, I'm guessing it will be fine for a good article. Thoughts? Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 05:36, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I suppose if they're letting it go at FA, then it'll be fine at GA. I wish they would make up their minds... *grumble, grumble, sigh* :) I guess the best solution would be to integrate some of the quotes if you can, and make sure the rest are referenced someplace nearby (which you seem to have already). And I have no idea what's going on with the formatting...this is a different template than I usually use, so I'm not sure what to tweak to get it to go back right again... Dana boomer (talk) 21:23, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Dana Boomer. I appreciate it. So, Cornucopia, just go through the article real quick and try to fix some of the quotes if you can. Just clean it up a little. Let me know when you're finished. – Ms. Sarita ^Confer 22:17, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I tried going through the article, but I cannot find places that need to be fixed. There is a quote directly after most quotes, and in some cases, directly after the next sentence. Are there any place in particular that you feel need fixing? I can't see any, so tell me what you think. :) Corn.u.co.pia / Disc.us.sion 09:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)