Talk:Chrysostomos Papasarantopoulos

Wording of the article

This article contains some wording that is more suited to a eulogy than to an encyclopedia. Some examples:

• Although no longer young, Father Chrysostomos displayed an energy, which a man half his age might have envied. He launched himself into a continual round of evangelizing, teaching and preaching. He had the qualities, which should be the hallmark of every priest: zeal, dedication, self-sacrifice, devotion to duty and, above all, holiness.
• The greatest desire of his heart was to spread Orthodoxy to Congo, and in this, he was marvelously successful. He was a perfectly humble man, full of the Holy Spirit, a truly altruistic person who remains relatively unknown even today.
• For 10 years, Father Chrysostomos laboured in Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania, but all the time his spiritual vision was fixed on another territory, where the flag of Orthodoxy had not at that time been raised.
• he fell asleep in Africa having started a huge task, which was continued with great success

Some other parts of the article are borderline. Articles are to be written in a factual, neutral tone. The goal is not to say how great the subject is. Even if the text is sourced it has to be written neutrally, unless it's a direct quote. ... discospinster _talk 15:22, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

In regards to the four examples cited above, these all speak to the matter-of-fact character of Father Chrysosotom as the pioneering missionary of his faith in new territory, who was in fact a hieromonk of advanced age for an undertaking of this magnitude. "Matter-of-fact" because all of his acts and deeds during his mission were evidence of this. The quotes that are identified above could perhaps be rewritten, or alternatively added as notes instead, but arbitralily deciding that this is "eulogizing" has NOT in the least disproved a single iota of what is stated; proof must be shown that what is stated is not the case; where are your references? arbitrarily removing the content in one stroke based on the misconception of "eulogizing" is flagrant, inaccurate, unacceptable and totally unencyclopedic.

• Regarding the first example above - anybody who knows anything of the life of this missionary, knows that *precisely* the type of mission he undertook, with extremely limited means at that, was EXACTLY "a continual round of evangelizing, teaching and preaching." That was PRECISELY the form that his mission took. This is undeniable. Not to include this utterly denies the truth of the matter, and the truth of his life. Regarding the "qualities of every priest", this qualifies the previous statement, however it could be relegated to a note, but not removed altogether.
• On the second and third quotes above, it was his goal to missionize in the Congo, and to state so has nothing to do with eulogizing; either rewrite the statement of prove that it was not his goal before removing the text; the fact is that he did travel the Congo widely on mission, and became gravely ill while on one of these trips. Regarding the success of the work he started, today the Congo constitutes the Orthodox Archdiocese of Central Africa, under the Patriarchate of Alexandria. This did not exist before Fr Chrysostom. The proof is in the results once again. He literally was the pioneer.
• Regarding the fourth quote, the quotation at the end of the article by the director of the Orthodox Christian Mission Center in the US speaks to the fact that this one missionary's life had a direct influence on missionary activity both in the US and in Greece.

Arbitrarily removing text with non-factual accusations of eulogizing, and doing so without offering any references or proof to support your claims, that is what is unencyclopedic. The facts of his life stand on their own. Subjecting the facts of his life to a popularity contest as to whether they are neutral in themselves, has nothing to do with historical accuracy. ΙΣΧΣΝΙΚΑ-888 (talk) 03:18, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Please, read WP:NPOV. It seems to me that you misunderstand what an encyclopedia is supposed to be about. I don't have to offer proof that he didn't do any of these things because I'm not claiming that he didn't do any of these things. If he evangelized a lot, then you write that he evangelized a lot. You do not write that he was "perfectly humble" and "truly altruistic". You write that he preached Orthodox Christianity in Africa, not that he "raised the flag of Orthodoxy" (what does that even mean?). He did not "fall asleep", he died. How do you know that he "displayed an energy that a man half his age might have envied"? Did you ask men half his age if they envied him? Maybe someone thought so, but that doesn't mean it belongs in an encyclopedia. To be perfectly honest, if an article about a company was written this way it would be deleted as spam. ... discospinster _talk 03:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

If the wording is ambiguous then you constructively make corrections to it; deleting content smacks of its own violation of NPOV; no excuse; provide references first in that case ΙΣΧΣΝΙΚΑ-888 (talk) 03:59, 8 December 2010 (UTC).

I made corrections to it before but you reverted them. I've made them again. ... discospinster _talk 17:30, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

NPOV Noticeboard

I have opened an entry on this article at the NPOV Noticeboard, here: WP:NPOVN#Chrysostomos Papasarantopoulos. ... discospinster _talk 18:12, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I came here from the NPOVN. The changes made here by User:discospinster do remove WP:PEACOCK terms and make the article more WP:NPOV. This is an improvement because the language formerly used was not encyclopedic. Anyone wishing to revert these changes should post a rationale on this talk page as the content removed consisted of unsourced and subjective interpretations. Blue Rasberry 19:22, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

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