Talk:Chudasama (Rajput clan)

Chudasama rajput chandravanshi yadukul shree krishna vansh

Chudasama originally belonged to Abhira clan

The Chudasama dynasty,originally of Abhira clan from Sindh.

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=bPNEAAAAIAAJ&q=abhira+Ra+mandalika&dq=abhira+Ra+mandalika&hl=en&ei=RmiATYCHL8j4rQfujJm8Bw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA Book Junagadh-page-10

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=5ntuAAAAMAAJ&q=abhira+king+chudasama&dq=abhira+king+chudasama&hl=en&ei=U2qATbe5OcO8rAeA2pGuBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAw

http://books.google.co.in/books?ei=U2qATbe5OcO8rAeA2pGuBw&ct=result&id=5ntuAAAAMAAJ&dq=abhira+king+chudasama&q=Chudasama+kingdom+

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=fltuAAAAMAAJ&q=chudasama+were+abhiras&dq=chudasama+were+abhiras&hl=en&ei=xm2ATbagEYPirAf-8szDBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAg

http://books.google.co.in/books?ei=xm2ATbagEYPirAf-8szDBw&ct=result&id=fltuAAAAMAAJ&dq=chudasama+were+abhiras&q=yadavas

The article already seems to say this. - Sitush (talk) 18:52, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

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Chudasamma were samma as the name suggests. They took help from Abhira groups. This needs a discussion here RS6784 (talk) 08:46, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Samma and Abhira are two different group. This needs a overlook and correction RS6784 (talk) 08:48, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 January 2014

See reply below

The Chudasama Rajputs are one of the earlier Rajput migrants into Kathiawar. According to bardic tales and limited historical records, after the fall of Vallabhi, the vassal in charge of Wamansthali (present day Vansthali, near Junagadh), declared independence and set up his own dominion with a capital at Wamansthali. Little is known about this line or rulers, but a certain king of this line, Wala Ram, had given his daughter in marriage to a chieftain of Sindh. These Rajputs, supposedly known as the Samma Rajputs, had settled in Sindh due to Mohammedan pressure in their original dominions, further north. Wala Ram did not have a male issue, and hence he adopted his nephew, a prince of the Sama clan, by the name of Ra Chuda. Ra Chuda, upon being proclaimed the ruler of Wamansthali, took "Chudasama" as his new name. The Chudasama line ruled over the regions in and around Wamansthali for over 600 years. Ra Chuda enjoyed a long and prosperous rule, and was succeeded by his grandson, Mulraj, due to the untimely death of his son Hamir. Ra Mulraj and his successor, Ra Vishwar, were both successful in military campaigns, crushing the neighbors who defied them. They rose to significant prominence in western Gujarat and carved a powerful niche for their dynasty in the history of Kathiawar. The successor of Ra Vishwar was Ra Grahar, a powerful, but tyrannical ruler. He was a contemporary of Mulraj, the first Solanki ruler of Anhilwar. Ra Grahar is supposed to have built the fort at Junagadh, known as Uparkot. The growing power of the Chudasama dynasty, and the tyrannical acts of Ra Grahar resulted in a conflict between him and Mulraj Solanki, and after a major and decisive battle, Mulraj slew the Ra and greatly weakened his kingdom. The Jadeja ruler from Kutch, Lakho Phulani, is supposed to have fought alongside the Ra in this battle, and to have lost his life when he attacked Mulraj during the negotiation of a truce. After this battle, the Chudasama kingdom was repeatedly attacked by the more powerful Solanki rulers of Gujarat. Ra Kawat, was the next ruler in this line, and is famous in bardic tales for his battle with Uga Vala, the, chief of Talaja and a maternal uncle to the Ra. Ra Kawat was victorious in this battle and ousted Uga Vala from his holdings. However, he is supposed to have been assassinated on his return from this campaign. Ra Dasji, the son and successor of Ra Kawat, witnessed the next attach by the Solanki ruler, Durlabraj Solanki of Anhilpur. The Ra defended his holdings but was finally besieged in his fortress in Uparkot. Durlabhraj however, forced his way into the fortress and slew the Ra, along with his loyal supporters. Wamansthali was captured and brought under the control of the Solanki ruler, and a general was placed in charge of the administration. Ra Dayaji, however, had a young son, Ra Navghan, who had miraculously escaped being captured by the Solanki soldiers with the help of his mother, and had been taken up by an Ahir family to be raised in strict secrecy. The Ahirs, who had been staunch supporters and extremely loyal to the Chudasama rulers, sacrificed their own son in place of the young Ra when questioned by the Solanki general. Upon reaching adulthood, Ra Navghan gathered a strong group of young supporters and loyalists and after repeated attacks, was able to recapture Wamansthali from the Solanki ruler. Stirring tales are told about the exploits and the chivalry of this brave ruler of the Chudasama dynasty. On one occasion, he crossed the wastelands of Kutch into the borders of Sindh, and gave a crushing defeat to the Muslim tyrant, Hamir Sumro, who was then ruling over Sindh. However, there is no mention of the Chudasama having played any part in the defense of the attack on Somnathby Mahmud of Ghazni, which occurred during the reign of Ra Navghan. Ra Navghan ruled for 24 years, and was succeeded by his son, Ra Khengar, who had a long and relatively peaceful rule of 23 years. The next in line was Ra Navghan-II, who also ruled peacefully for the better part of the 21 years of his reign. During the last years of Ra Khengar's reign, he witnessed a long and determined attack on his capital, from the illustrious Siddhraj Jaisinh. As fortune would have it, the Ra did not live to see the result of his siege, and the resistance against the Solanki was continued by his brave son and successor, Ra Khengar-II. In spite of a brave resistance and a determined defense by the Ra, Siddhraj was resilient, and finally broke into the fortress of Uparkot, killing the Ra and his sons. He captured the wife of the Ra, the queen Rainak Devi, whom Siddhraj intended to marry. Previously, Siddharaj intended to marry Rainak Devi, however she rejects him and marries Ra Khengar. Following which, later the attack occurs. However, the queen refused him and preferred the burning pyre, on the banks of Bhogavo river, near the town of Wadhwan. Siddharaj left a Viceroy at Junagadh, who remained but a short time, for the people of Junagadh quickly expelled him and elected a new sovereign, Ra Naughan III. This new sovereign died in AD 1140 and was succeeded by his son, Ra Kawat II, who ruled uneventfully for about twelve years. In AD 1152 Jayasinha Chudasama, son of Ra Kawat, ascended the gadi of his ancestors under the title of Ra Grahario II. He died about AD 1180, after a reign spent chiefly in plundering expeditions into other regions of Gujarat. He was succeeded by his son Ra Raisinha, who in AD 1184 was followed by Ra Mahipal II, known as Gajraj. Gajraj died in AD 1201, and his son, Ra Jaymal, succeeded him. Ra Mahipal III succeeded his father on the latter's death in AD 1230, and he spent much time in fighting against the Kathis. They defeated an army sent against them under one of the Ra's generals, and he was obliged to collect another force and proceed against them in person. The ruler of Dhank, a Vala Rajput chieftain, supported him, but in spite of the strong combination against them the Kathis did not suffer serious defeat. They even captured several villages belonging to Dhank. They remained undefeated when Ra Mahipal III died in AD 1253, and it was left to his son, Ra Khengar III, to complete the work his father had begun. Before his short reign of seven years was ended, he had compelled the Kathis to acknowledge defeat and to take service under him. Ra Mandlik I ascended the gadi in AD 1260, at a time when the Mahomedans were beginning to establish themselves in Gujarat, and to change plundering raids into permanent occupation of the country. Ra Mandlik I faced the vicious invasion of Alaf Khan, General and Brother-in-Law to Mohammed Khilji, the ruler of Delhi. Alaf Khan successfully demolished the splendid temple of Somnath once again, but was greatly hampered in his attacks by the forces of Ra Mandlik I. Alaf Khan subjugated all the territories between Talaja and Okha, and left a Mahomedan Viceroy to administer the territory. Ra Mandkli I was later engaged by a Rathore ruler by the name of Jagatsinh, and the Chudasamas lost control of their ancestral Wamansthali for almost 100 years, before winning it back in AD 1356. Ra Mandlik I died in AD 1306, and for the next two years Ra Noghan IV ruled in Junagadh. Ra Mahipal IV succeeded him in AD 1308, and reigned for seventeen uneventful years, when he died and was succeeded by his son Ra Khengar IV. The new ruler determined to rid Saurashtra of the Mahomedan Viceroy in the South, and soon after he began his reign he made a vigorous onslaught on the Viceroy and drove him out of the peninsula. Prabhas Patan and Somnath thus for the first time came under Chudasama rule, and Ra Khengar rescued the famous temple from the decay into which it had fallen during the Mahomedan occupation of the country, restoring it to its former splendor. But his success against the Mahomedans was not to be for long, for Mahamad Tughlak Shah marched on Junagadh and spent two rainy seasons besieging the fort, which he eventually captured. Ra Khengar, however, had his kingdom restored to him, and Mahamad Taghlak returned to Delhi. However, in AD 1346 another incident was the cause of a second visit being paid to Saurashtra by the King of Delhi. A cobbler named Taghan, who had been raised to power in Gujarat, raised a rebellion amongst the Gujarat nobles against the Mahomedan Governor. Mahamad Taghlak marched with an army on Anhilwad to restore order, and Taghan fled to Junagadh and sought protection from Ra Khengar. In AD 1348 Mahamad Taghlak again led an army against Junagadh and again defeated it.

Kuldeepsinh1 (talk) 18:37, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

I've collapsed your proposal, which you can still see by clicking on the "Show" link. It seemed to be a request to replace the current content with new material, none of which was reliably sourced and much of which seems likely to be a copy/paste. That's not how we work, sorry. You need to provide reliable sources that verify the statements that you make and you should not rely on other Wikipedia articles to do so.

Generally speaking, it is better to use your sandbox for lengthy drafts rather than insert them directly into talk pages. When you are happy with your draft then you can mention it here and request input from other people. I'm happy to help you create the sandbox and link it here when you are ready. - Sitush (talk) 18:48, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Ra Mandlik was not converted to islam

Dear @Sitush , it is doubtful to accept Ra Mandlik was converted to islam , because still memorial stone of Ra Mandlik is available near satvali river of Bagsara village , kindly remove this line from this article " The last of these kings, Ra Mandlik Chudasama, was forcibly converted to Islam in 1470 by Mahmud Begarha ". Thanks.

Chudasama as "Ahir Rana"

Literary Sources like "Dvyashraya" of Hemchandra and " Prabandh Chintamani" are the actual sources describing Chudasama as Ahir Rana and the authors like Reginald E. Enthoven or others have just taken the reference of these sources. Hence, I am not convinced or fully convinced about removal of the following from the article on the grounds that the author Enthoven is not reliable.
A Chudasama prince styled "Graharipu" ruling at Vanathali near Junagarh is described in Dyashraya Kavya of Hemchandra as an Abhira and a Yadava. In their basic traditions as well as in popular stories, the Chudasamas are still called Ahir Ranas.
I further submit the following source mentioning these basic sources "Dvyashraya" and " Prabandh Chintamani" and says the same thing

Encyclopaedia of folklore and folktales of South Asia, Volume 10 By Sushil Kumar (Acharya) on page-2771

similar references about Grihripu as Ahir Rana or chief we get here

Indian Antiquary, Volume 12, 1984 on page-192

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=5gk7AQAAMAAJ&q=chudasama+ahir&dq=chudasama+ahir&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xMp8VO3NOYWJuASCjIEw&ved=0CDoQ6AEwBzge page 527.

However, its not a claim but a request to the editors specially dear Sitush to please review these contents--Mahensingha 20:32, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Those sources appear all to be reprints of Raj ethnographical material. We don't use that stuff. - Sitush (talk)

16:41, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, but I tried to stress is the original and indigenous literary sources like "Dvyashraya" of Hemchandra and " Prabandh Chintamani" that have initially mentioned about Chudasamas. The Raj Ethnography and authors like Enthoven or others have just copied it. Its noway original creation of Raj ethnographers. Unfortunately, we dont get much of the material on chudasamas if we exclude the prime sources like "Dvyashraya" and " Prabandh Chintamani". However, my point is never to support Raj Ethnographers. May be, I could not choose and use the effective words to express the idea convincing you. Thanx. --Mahensingha 13:41, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Chudasama Rajputs

Chudasamma are Rajput in fact the name indicates their parental Samma in int

1. Junagarh Of all the Rajput states, Junagarh1 was the most powerful state ruled by the house of Chudasama. The bardic accounts are unanimous in ascribing the origin of Chudasama to Chudachandra Yadav, a Rajput of the Sama tribe. ( Quote from History of Gujarat Kingdom, 1458-1537 J. Chaube

Munshiram Manoharlal Publishers, 1975 - Gujarat (India) page 16

1. [1] The Man who saved India Book link mentions The Junagadh was ruled by Rajput Chudasama dynasty till mid 15th century when it was conquered by Mahmud Begda

1. [2]Transaction and Hierarchy: Elements for a Theory of Caste

By Harald Tambs-Lyche The Chudasama dynasty—which fell to Muslim invaders in 1470—was based on an alliance between the Ahirs and the ruling house. Ahirana Raja - in Gujarati language translates to Raja of Ahirs /Rulers of Ahir. - Even the Muslim Nawabs called themselves Ahirana Raja— the ruler of the Ahirs,

which clearly indicates that it was a Honorary title adopted by Muslim rulers after conquest of Junagadh kingdom from Chudasama Rajput Dynasty.

A few sources on which earlier revision was there itself mentions them as Rajut and Ahirana Raja in Gujarati tralates as Raja of Ahirs Jethwarp (talk) 11:44, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

This [3] mentions Chudasama's origins from Abhiras.

d there's [4] one more reference supporting the claim of Chudasama's being from Abhira dynasty. HinduKshatrana (talk) 12:43, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Only first source mentions them as Abhira, which is against the mainstream idea - the second link could not locate it. The ideas which are against mainstream sources are called Fringe Theory - see WP:FRINGE. The earlier article was based only on such a fringe theory and did not include mainstream idea, please note.

If you can find few more reilable source you can mention in article that some authors believe them to be Abhira - but it is only a fringe theory - originally Chuda-Sama are from Samma Rajput, who left Sind and founded dynasty here, where as original Samma, who convereted to Islam are now Muslim Rajput tribe in Pakistan Jethwarp (talk) 07:11, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

An

Why i am unable to edit this article ?

Why i am unable to edit this article ? Navghana (talk) 15:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Bsdk unable kyon kar rakha hai Akarepa (talk) 03:07, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Again

@sitush again user heba aisha with cast POV removed cited information Raakuldeep (talk) 12:21, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2021

Recent edit stating that Chudasama is Ahir clan is not true. Actually Chudasama is Rajput clan offshoot of sama clan of rajputs 203.88.145.212 (talk) 17:44, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:55, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2021

Wrong information on chudasama. Chudasama are a Rajput clan. Rahulmis (talk) 12:29, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:05, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2021

Akarepa (talk) 02:57, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

The statement for chudasama rajput Is wrong

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:23, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2021 (2)

Akarepa (talk) 03:05, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

They were yaduvanshi rajputs not aheer

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:23, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi protect edit requested

Writers haven't written directly abhira connection. They are saying that one of their prince came to the throne with the help of Abhira group, took the title of Abhiranaka. This doesn't mean they had any relationship to that group. All sources say they were from Sammas of Sindh.

So using the term: Offshoot of Ahirs is incorrect. It should be mentioned offshoot of Samna.

Kapadia, Aparna (16 May 2018). Gujarat: The Long Fifteenth Century and the Making of a Region. Cambridge University Press. p. 80. ISBN 978-1-107-15331-8. Retrieved 24 June 2021. The Chudasamas were a branch of the Samma lineage that acquired the principality of Vanthali from the local ruler. RS6784 (talk) 08:56, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

So it should be Samma of Sindh. The source is itself saying the same. RS6784 (talk) 09:05, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2021

Dear Admin, Writers haven't written directly about abhira connection. They are saying that one of their prince came to the throne with the help of Abhira group, took the title of Abhiranaka. This doesn't necessarily mean they had any direct relationship to that group. All sources say they were from Sammas of Sindh.

So using the term: Offshoot of Ahirs is incorrect. It should be mentioned offshoot of Samna. Below the source is mentioned which is pointing the same thing. Kapadia, Aparna (16 May 2018). Gujarat: The Long Fifteenth Century and the Making of a Region. Cambridge University Press. p. 80. ISBN 978-1-107-15331-8. Retrieved 24 June 2021. The Chudasamas were a branch of the Samma lineage that acquired the principality of Vanthali from the local ruler. RS6784 (talk) 08:56, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

So it should be Samma of Sindh. The source is itself saying the same RS6784 (talk) 14:10, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2021

Dear Admin, Writers haven't written directly about abhira connection. They are saying that one of their prince came to the throne with the help of Abhira group, took the title of Abhiranaka. This doesn't necessarily mean they had had any direct relationship to that group. Most main sources say they were from Sammas of Sindh.

So using the term: Offshoot of Ahirs is incorrect. It should be mentioned offshoot of Samna. Below the source is mentioned which is pointing the same thing. Kapadia, Aparna (16 May 2018). Gujarat: The Long Fifteenth Century and the Making of a Region. Cambridge University Press. p. 80. ISBN 978-1-107-15331-8. Retrieved 24 June 2021. The Chudasamas were a branch of the Samma lineage that acquired the principality of Vanthali from the local ruler.

So it should be Samma of Sindh. The source is itself saying the same.

My apologies for the previous error ! RS6784 (talk) 14:30, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2021

Dear Admin, Writers haven't written related directly about abhira connection. They are saying that one of their prince came to the throne with the help of Abhira group, took the title of Abhiranaka. This doesn't necessarily mean they had had any direct relationship to that group. Most main sources cited on the page itself says the same thing that they were from Sammas of Sindh.

So using the term: Offshoot of Ahirs is incorrect. It should be mentioned offshoot of Samna. Below the source is mentioned which is pointing the same thing. Kapadia, Aparna (16 May 2018). Gujarat: The Long Fifteenth Century and the Making of a Region. Cambridge University Press. p. 80. ISBN 978-1-107-15331-8. The Chudasamas were a branch of the Samma lineage that acquired the principality of Vanthali from the local ruler.

So it should be Samma of Sindh. The source is itself saying the same. RS6784 (talk) 07:57, 31 August 2021 (UTC)