Talk:Chulalongkorn

Untitled

• per Wikipedia´s own rules of naming [[1]] monarchs, this needs to be renamed. Antares911 11:20, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Please see the result of the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Thailand-related articles)#Article names for Thai royals/Thai with honorary titles first. andy 11:49, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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This story is confirmed in Chulalongkorn's memoirs. I didn't believe it would fit in the article, but I thought it was worth narrating it:

During his travels in Thailand, the King always disguised himself, in order to better observe the daily lives of his subjects. Once, while under the guise of a merchant, he met a rice farmer who was harvesting his crops. The King said he was passing through on his way to Bangkok, where he would acquire merchandise to sell in rural areas, and asked the farmer if he knew where he could get a decent meal. The farmer invited the "merchant" to have dinner with his family that night, to show his people's hospitality. That night, when the King entered the modest dinning room, he noticed his official picture hanging on the wall right above the table. As he stared at it for a few seconds, the following dialogue took place:

Farmer: This is our King, Chulalongkorn the Great, the Rama V.

Chulalongkorn: Really? I didn't know his image...

Farmer: In my life, I've seen him twice. The first time was about ten years ago. I was in Bangkok to deliver a rice order, and I arrived on his birthday. I saw him in the official parade. He passed right next to me.

Chulalongkorn: And the second time?

Farmer: I see him now, my Lord.

According to the King's memoirs, this was the only time he was recognized by one of his subjects in all his travels through Thailand.

Regards, Redux 18:19, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Chopsticks

Is it true that Rama V replaced chopsticks in Thailand with knives and forks in the 19th century by royal decree? More needs to be said about chopsticks in Thai culture in the chopstick article. — Hippietrail 10:22, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, it's not that he replaced chopsticks with knives. Chulalongkorn merely liberated the use of knives (and other Western utensils), which had been prohibited since the times of Rama IV. For all practical purposes, though, it's as if he had replaced, since knives quickly took over as the preferred utensil. Redux 20:58, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I do not think the idea that knives and forks replaced chopsticks in Thailand is correct. Traditionally, Thais ate using their right hands to pick up food and rice (requires a bit of practice) and Chinese-style spoon for soup. This practice could still be found in rural area these days, especially in the Northeastern part of the country. Chopsticks usage has been limited to Chinese food (noodles, mainly). The perferred utensils now are forks and spoons rather than forks and knives, due to the nature of the Thai food, which traditionally would have been cut to small pieces appropriate for picking and hence one would not need a knife. --Jakris 05:02, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Requested move

Chulalongkorn → Rama V of Thailand – the naming of the article needs to be consistent for monarchs and properly reflect their status. see wikipedia´s own rules about monarchs [2] Antares911 11:35, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thai names are indeed a swamp of confusion for ignorant farangs. The problem here is that "Rama" is not a name, it is a description. As I understand it is a contraction of "Raja Maha," which means "great king" in Sanscrit. Thus, the current king's name is Bhumipol Adulyadej, and he is the ninth Great King (Rama) of the Chakri dynasty. Thus although he is conventionally called "King Rama IX" this is not cognate with "King Louis IX." My prefered article title would be Bhumipol Adulyadej, King of Thailand. Adam 11:59, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Rama in this case has nothing to do with Maha Raja, which indeed means great king in Sanskrit. Rama is the name of one of the ten incarnations of Lord Vishnu, a Hindu god. The kings of Thailand are considered reincarnated gods, hence the use of Rama preceding the reign of all the kings in the Chakri dynasty. Chulalongkorn is Rama V, the fifth king of the Chakri dynasty, while the current one, Bhumipol is Rama IX, as he is number nine in the line. Pim 03:55, 6 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Definitely not Rama V (see also comment by Adam Carr), if anything then King Chulalongkorn or Chulalongkorn, King of Thailand (or more correct Chulalongkorn, King of Siam). I opened a general discussion for article names of Thai royals (and also Thai names including a title) at Manual of Style (Thailand-related articles), as it's a rather complicate and confusing issue with Thai names. I'd suggest to wait with the move until the discussion there has come to a consensus. andy 16:15, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Note that Wikipedia's convention for monarchs is to omit the "king" (see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles)), and to use the contemporary name for the state, so I would expect this article to be titled Chulalongkorn of Siam. However, "These conventions do not apply to eastern civilizations", so another form may be more appropriate here. Gdr 2005-06-28 13:28:39 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. violet/riga (t) 10:22, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

The word "Rama" refers to an incarnation of Lord Vishnu, and is the name of the hero of the Indian Epic Ramayana. The word has no relations with Raja Maha.

Picture of Rama 5 and 6

This picture isn't Rama V and VI but Rama V and Crown Prince Maha Vajirunahis who died before crowned.Pudtipong Nawasornyuttana 06:36, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Confused

There is a inconsistency in the article, since it states that Chulalongkorn joined a Buddhist monastery at the age of 15. When he was 17 he succeeded his father. But Chulalongkorn was born in 1853 and he ascended the throne in 1868. Thus the ages stated in the article cannot be true. Gugganij 22:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The birth and ascension dates are right, so I've taken the others out. I haven't been able to find out what (if any) time he spent as a monk, but if someone else can then it should be added. Mark^{your words} 22:47, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

King Mongkut died on 1 October 1868, but Prince Chulalongkorn was too young to rule then. He was ordained as a monk for a brief period from 24 September to 9 October 1873 before his second coronation on 10 November, so I would assume that his ordination was in accordance with the Thai custom of men joining monkhood after turning twenty. May still need to confirm this. Paul C 11:17, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. Gugganij 22:48, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Rama V's queens were his half-sisters

Incest or not, the queens were his own half-sisters and nothing that you Thai guys should feel shame about it. Why did Mr. Manop remove or reverte it?

--64.62.138.28 05:33, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

some modrnization during the reign of King Rama V

I think it would be useful to discuss further on the points mentioned below and consider to add them to make the article more complete.

1. Referring to the section about education published in the article about King Rama VI, the article mentioned that King Rama VI built the first school and university. I would like to clarify that the progress on educational system during the reign of King Rama VI was made upon the fundamental established during the reign of King Rama V. In this regard, it is important to have a section on the establishment of educaitonal system in Thailand into the article on King Rama V.

2. The first school in Thailand (Siam was called in that time) can be categoried into 2 parts; firstly the one established by foreign missionary which we need to check further if Assumption College or Bangkok Christian College was built before (not so sure if any of them was built in the reign of King Rama IV or V) and they are private schools; secondly, the first school in Thailand established by Thai (in this case the King of Thailand) for Thais can be referred to Suankularb Wittayalai (Wittayalai is the translation of "college") which was initially for the children of government's officials and Mahannaparam School which aimed (and still aims) for people at all walks of life. Suankularb Wittayalai was later open widely for children of people from all walks of life. The school is house of a large number of well-known alumnis, including a number of prime ministers. At present, Assumption College, Bangkok Chirstian College, and Suankularb Wittayalai are still respected ones of the best boy schools in Thailand.

3. The point to be highlighted is that Suankularb Wittayalai was graciously established by King Rama V during last years of His Majesty's reign.

4. Vajiravudha School is the first boarding school graciously established in Thailand by King Rama VI; inspired by British boarding schools (for example, Eton). Given the fact that King Rama V was the first Thai King visiting Europe as mentioned in the article and King Rama VI was the first Thai King attending school and university in Europe.

5. It is valuable to mention that King Rama V made a huge reform as well as modernization in the public administration. His Majesty established some key ministries which remain until today. The most notable ones include the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Interior (where two of His Majesty's brothers; Prince Dhevawongse and Prince Damrong were appointed Ministers for the Foreign Affairs and the Interior subsequently. Both princes had made great leaps for both diplomatic relation and domestic administration in the Thai history).

Dhanapanya (talk) 10:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhanapanya (talk • contribs) 10:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Categorization as Theravaden Buddhist monk?

I am puzzled by this. Was he really a monastic Theravaden, or just a layperson? If he was either, why is this information not in the article body? (Mind meal (talk) 18:41, 26 October 2008 (UTC))

date of visit to Singapore

Minor point, but I saw a statue in Singapore commemorating the King's visit. The date give was March 16 1871. Perhaps this article should be modified to reflect this more precise date? For image of plaque: http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM8BDC_First_visit_of_a_Thai_monarch_to_another_countrySingapore —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ian@perth (talk • contribs) 06:27, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Name Chulalongkorn

AFAIR Cula means small, so can one say Cula-Longkorn once was a nickname for a child? But why longkorn and not a word in local language? --89.13.53.237 (talk) 03:49, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

The name is derived from cūḷā + alaṁkaraṇa. (The l in Chula is spelled with ฬ in Thai, denoting a root from the Pali ḷ .) It literally translates as hair ornament, or more loosely, crown (Phra Kiao to be exact).

However, the king's reigning name, Chula Chom Klao, is derived from culla, which means small, and Chom Klao, which is the reigning name of his father King Mongkut, and does mean little King Mongkut, a reference to his father. --Paul_012 (talk) 12:54, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Dara Rasmi

On 12 February 1908, King Chulalongkorn promoted Chao Chom Manda Dara Rasmi to Princess Consort Dara Rasmi or Phra Rajchaya Chao Dara Rasmi, in the first such promotion ever.

—Pawyilee (talk) 13:06, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

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'Call for democracy' section is misleading

When I read the content, he never called for democracy but rather reject the idea. Please change the title. --Wake it up (talk) 07:02, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

That section is entirely unsourced, so I think you're right to bring it up. There are also other unsourced claims in the article I found a bit far-fetched. I have a few books I can check to see what they say on it, will try and get back to you. I'm keen to hear the thoughts of any editors who know the topic well. Jr8825 • Talk 11:40, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Having said that, looking through the text more closely I agree the problem with that section is more that the title just doesn't match the writing (as you point out). I've renamed it to "Pressures for reform", although if someone has a better idea please feel free to change it. Jr8825 • Talk 11:48, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I think the previous title was supposed to mean that other people were the ones calling for democracy, but seeing as it's causing confusion a change seems warranted. In Thai, the 1884 correspondence is usually plainly called just the "R.E. 103 event", which isn't really helpful. "Pressures for reform" could work, but it would be even better if the content was rewritten to reflect this scope. --Paul_012 (talk) 13:55, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Contemporary title?

After reading Rama (Kings of Thailand), I'm concerned about the statement in the introductory sentence of this article, which states that Chulalongkorn was titled Rama V and a later note in the Early life section that states that he was crowned as Rama V. It appears that this could be a misinterpretation of Thai รัชกาลที่ 5, which merely refers to the fifth reign. Something is definitely inconsistent, since the aforementioned articles states that the kings were not contemporarily referred to as "Rama" until the sixth reign. Articles of Rama I-III and X use a more cautious wording like "(also) styled/known as".

This also raises the question of what actually was Chulalongkorn's contemporary title as king, and whether that should be mentioned more prominently instead. XulF (talk) 14:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for catching this. The title was somehow lost in two consecutive edits by User:Somsak Ung and User:DrKay back in 2021. I'll try to restore the previous text. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:55, 25 May 2024 (UTC)