Talk:Cima (wrestler)

Untitled

Didn't he work for WCW as a jobber at one point? I distinctly remember the name "Shiima Nobunaga" from my WCW-watching childhood.

I think Ultimo Dragon brought most of his first graduates to WCW,where they worked briefly.

Should Schwein really redirect to some musical group? Shouldn't it redirect to a description of the move?83.233.58.55 22:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Spelling

Nowhere else on the internet is CIMA's name spelled in Normal Case.

WP:MOS states in a box at the top of the page to use common sense when applying it. And common sense very clearly states that if Wikipedia alone spells the name 'Cima', then Wikipedia is wrong. This page should be renamed to CIMA (wrestler) (currently a redirect to Cima (wrestler)) and all instances of Cima should be changed to CIMA. 96.244.132.35 (talk) 04:59, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

The Japanese, when using western alphabets, almost never use lowercase letters, instead they spell everything in all capitals. CIMA, YAMATO, PAC, MAD BLANKEY, MONSTER EXPRESS and THE GATE OF VICTORY are just examples from DRAGON GATE. And this isn't limited to professional wrestling. The style guide on Japan-related articles notes this and says "these names and name elements are not excluded from the guidance provided by the main manuals of style for English-language Wikipedia, listed above. Words should not be written in all caps in the English Wikipedia". If articles about far more important subjects than some smalltime professional wrestler have to follow this guideline, I don't see how this one article should become an exception to the rule. If Cima is allowed to become CIMA, you basically open up a can of worms affecting hundreds and hundreds of articles from all walks of life that suddenly have a reason to ignore WP:ALLCAPS. I said from the get-go that the IP editor needed a consensus to make the change, but he disagreed. If there is a consensus that states that CIMA should be allowed, not only will I be shocked, but will also agree to follow it.リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) (talk) 19:08, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

The reason I decided to make my case on this particular article rather than any of the others is because CIMA is rather unique in that his name is exclusively spelled in ALLCAPS. YAMATO isn't always spelled in all caps in English, KAGETORA isn't always spelled in all caps, Kiss (the band and an often used example in regards to WP:ALLCAPS) isn't always spelled with allcaps. CIMA is. (Whether or not he is "smalltime" is irrelevant)

My opinion is that the guideline itself is flawed. It gives no reasons for refusing to capitalize aside from "because".

And my concern, which still hasn't been addressed, is that when CIMA's name is exclusively spelled in all caps and Wikipedia refuses to do so, wikipedia is producing incorrect information. This is even more egregious in the case of his older name SHIIMA. At least the article notes that CIMA is stylized in all caps - no such note exists for SHIIMA. This is why I keep insisting on WP:COMMONSENSE. I don't care what a guideline says, if sticking to it dogmatically produces wrong information then it needs to be ignored.

I'm going to edit the article after writing this post to change the names in the infobox and the first occurrence of any name to allcaps while leaving the others in standard case. Although I think the ALLCAPS spellings should be used exclusively, I think this compromise is adequate in that it presents correct information without egregiously violating the JAPCAT policy. 198.200.181.205 (talk) 15:23, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Your change was reverted; I would say it's probably not a good idea to re-do the edit. As there appears to be some trouble forming a consensus here, my suggestion is to ask for a third opinion or open a thread at the dispute resolution noticeboard which helps informally mediate content disputes. —Darkwind (talk) 20:41, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, that was a kid on autopatrol who probably reverted without reading the edit. In fact, someone probably ought to warn him to be careful with rollback. 96.244.132.35 (talk) 01:28, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

"CIMA is rather unique in that his name is exclusively spelled in ALLCAPS". That's just not true. A quick search found several instances of lowercase spelling from three sources considered reliable by Wikiproject Professional Wrestling:

• http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/PPVReports/2009/09/05/pf-10761481.html
  
• http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/Reviews/2008/10/15/pf-7099856.html
  
• http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2006/12/24/pf-2969136.html
  
• http://www.f4wonline.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=18981
  
• http://www.f4wonline.com/component/content/article/11483/
  
• http://www.f4wonline.com/more/more-top-stories/103-indies/3639-pwg-ddt-night-two-results
  
• http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=49395

There is nothing unique about the spelling of his name; hundreds of Japanese anime shows, music acts, etc. use allcaps spelling all the time.リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) (talk) 21:13, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Well fine, I was in error. None the less, you're deliberately overstating the commonness of the standard case spelling - on canoe.ca, the first 29 results and 47 of the first 50 used the allcaps spelling. Compare a yahoo search on Kiss, where less than half of the results used allcaps.

Please explain why you think that the standard case is better than the much more commonly used allcaps. "There will be havoc if the guideline is ignored even once" is neither a valid nor accurate argument as to keeping the lower case spelling.

In fact, there's actually a policy that supports using the allcaps spelling, WP:COMMONAME - which incidentally is actually policy rather than a guideline. 96.244.132.35 (talk) 01:28, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Your whole point was that Cima's spelling is somehow "unique". I quite clearly demonstrated it's not. Now Cima is in the same exact position as those other hundreds and hundreds of articles. Yes, Cima is more commonly spelled in allcaps, but so are those other articles for reasons stated above. If they can't make an exception, neither can Cima. I don't see WP:COMMONAME applying to allcaps, it only means that the article shouldn't be at, for example, Nobuhiko Oshima. "There will be havoc if the guideline is ignored even once" absolutely is a valid and accurate argument. Why are you so terrified of going out and asking for a third party opinion?リボン・サルミネン (Ribbon Salminen) (talk) 11:59, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Edit warring

Okay, stop with the edit warring. I have fully protected the page for 3 days to enforce a discussion of the issue rather than this constant reverting. The IP user is attempting to discuss the issue (see section above), the least everyone can do is engage with him/her and talk about it instead of edit warring. If you want assistance in working together, please go to the dispute resolution noticeboard where a volunteer can help you all work together. —Darkwind (talk) 18:35, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like the IP editor is blameless—you are ALL edit warring here, and it needs to stop. —Darkwind (talk) 18:41, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

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