Talk:Civil parishes in England

Disambiguation

This page has dabbed to Civil parishes in England since an RfD in 2011, here. At least 5,000 pages make use of that disambiguation (may be many more, I gave up counting). So before changing the redirect, further discussion is needed.  —SMALLJIM  14:45, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Agree. Sadly the editor who did this has also removed a good 200 plus wlinks as well so all these now need to be reverted too!Tmol42 (talk) 14:55, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

If Loginnigol agrees that this wasn't a good idea, perhaps he would self-revert them? Let's wait for a while for a response.  —SMALLJIM  15:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I started fixing Somerset ones putting back the wikilinks & piping to Civil parishes in England as they were showing as pointing to the dab page, however I've stopped now the link appears to be restored.— Rod ^talk 15:15, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

SMALLJIM , not sure what you're referring to there. What I did is pretty obvious. The civil parish title ought not be a redirect to "...in England" just as (for example) the "county" page doesn't redirect to "county in England". The term is valid in Ireland as well. In other words the term is too generic to hijack it to a redirect based on a country. Everyone seemed to understand this in previous discussions and the only excuse that was used to maintain the redirect tot England was that there were were "too many" backlinks to it. Well so I dealt with that and removed the excuse so that now the proper redirect would be the disambiguate page. —Loginnigol (talk) 15:26, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

That's not a valid reason. You have to get consensus for changes and there are already at least four of us who don't agree with your change. The best thing to do would be to revert your outstanding changes for now and raise a new case at WP:RFD to see what the current consensus is. For the record, I don't have a strong opinion which way it should go, but I do know that we must go about it the right way.  —SMALLJIM  15:33, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

(ec) An outstanding example of disrupting Wikipedia to illustrate a point. I haven't seen a better one in years. Please fix the mess you made, Loginnigol. Mr Stephen (talk) 15:37, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I started to restore the links by putting in a link to the England page but gave up after a few and just reverted them out. The person who wants to change this to a dab page should have gained agreement and then sorted that out themselves before causing chaos to so many articles. By the way I do not think it was appropriate to use WP:TW to do that type of change. Keith D (talk) 16:27, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm trying to make sense of what's going on here. Changing a redirect with so many incoming links shouldn't be done without discussion, especially when there has been an RfD discussion, but there is clearly a problem with this page redirecting to Civil parishes in England when so many of the pages that link here cover places in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. --Deskford (talk) 18:07, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I think the principle behind what User:Loginnigol was trying to do is sound, but (s)he went completely the wrong way about it. A change of that magnitude should certainly have been discussed first. Also, instead of changing [[civil parish]] links to [[Civil parishes in England]], he removed the wikilinks completely in many articles which is clearly wrong. I agree with User:Deskford that there is a problem with the status quo. May I suggest the following as a way forward:

1. All current links to Civil parish be updated to Civil parishes in England - piped as appropriate
2. Civil parish (disambiguation) be moved to Civil parish over the redirect

WaggersTALK 13:05, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

It's worth rereading the 2011 discussion. The rationale for a redirect to Civil parishes in England was that England is the only country where civil parishes still have an administrative function. In Ireland civil parishes are essentially obsolete, with an ongoing relevance only for one or two obscure legal purposes. The rationale for the redirect was not the number of links which would have to be fixed - the number of links was just a result of the current usage - although the solution adopted did resolve the incoming links problem.

Civil parish is not really an ambiguous term. The concept was originally the same in all parts of the then United Kingdom, but evolved differently in the different countries. An alternative approach is to expand civil parish to its own article, which would cover the origins and development of the concept, an idea discussed and discarded in 2011. But as long as it is treated as an ambiguous term, it is reasonable to treat Civil parishes in England as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Mhockey (talk) 21:26, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Civil parishes in England which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:46, 23 June 2016 (UTC)