Talk:Closed city/Archive 1
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Weren't the following also closed cities:
- Perm, in the Perm Oblast?
- Kurchatov, Kazakhstan?
- Gorki?
-- John Fader (talk | contribs)19:04, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- AFAIK, Perm wasn't a closed city, and Gorky as well. On the other hand Izhevsk probably was, because it was one of the centers of weapon producing. Grue 06:16, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- There were two degrees of closeness: closed for foreigners and closed even for Russians. IMO Gorky was closed for foreigners, but this is just my opinion, a hint for further search. Mikkalai 16:23, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- Several (western, touristy) sites describe Perm in the former category (as it was a centre of weapons manufacture). -- John Fader (talk | contribs) 17:37, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- There were two degrees of closeness: closed for foreigners and closed even for Russians. IMO Gorky was closed for foreigners, but this is just my opinion, a hint for further search. Mikkalai 16:23, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Additions
I agree a category is a good idea. I added stubs for Zheleznogorsk and Snezhinsk; I found these at the Nuclear Cities Initiative (NCI)site. Zegoma beach 17:30, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
List
From some russian chat:
В СССР все закрытые территории составляли 20 % площади. По мнению экспертов, сегодня открыта и нанесена на карты примерно половина из них. Официально на сегодня список закрытых городов Минатома включает 10 названий:
Саров (Арзамас-16, Шатки-11, Москва-300, Кремлев)
Железногорск (Красноярск-26, Соцгород, Атомград)
Заречный (Пенза-19)
Снежинск (Челябинск-70)
Северск (Томск-7)
Озерск (Челябинск-65)
Трехгорный (Златоуст-36)
Зеленогорск (Красноярск-45)
Лесной (Свердловск-45)
Новоуральск (Свердловск-44)
гражданам России за месяц до поездки в Норильск нужно будет подавать в местные органы ФСБ прошение с указанием приглашающей норильской фирмы или организации
Проблемы развития наукоградов России #9-10, 1999:
Naukograds of Russia 1 Балашиха-1, Московская область 2 Белоозерский, Московская область 3 Бийск, Алтайский край 4 Борок, Ярославская область 5 Дзержинск, Нижегородская область 6 Дзержинский, Московская область 7 Димитровград, Ульяновская область 8 Дмитров-7, Московская область 9 Долгопрудный, Московская область 10 Дубна, Московская область 11 Железногорск (Красноярск-26), Красноярский край 12 Железнодорожный, Московская область 13 Жуковский, Московская область 14 Заречный, Свердловская область 15 Заречный (Пенза-19), Пензенская область 16 Звездный городок, Московская область 17 Зеленогорск (Красноярск-45), Красноярский край 18 Зеленоград (Москва - на территории Московской области) 19 Иркутского НЦ РАН академгородок, Иркутская область 20 Истра, Московская область 21 Климовск, Московская область 22 Кольцово, Новосибирская область 23 Королев (Калининград), Московская область 24 Красноармейск, Московская область 25 Краснодар-59, Краснодарский край 26 Краснознаменск (Голицино-2), Московская область 27 Краснообск, академгор. Сиб. отд. РАСХН, Новосибирская область 28 Красноярского НЦ РАН академгородок, Красноярский край 29 Лесной (Свердловск-45), Сведловская область 30 Лыткарино, Московская область 31 Меленки, Владимирская область 32 Менделеево, Московская область 33 Миасс, Челябинская область 34 Нижняя Салда, Сведловская область 35 Новосибирск-49, Новосибирская область 36 Новосибирского НЦ РАН академгородок, Новосибирская область 37 Новостройка, Московская область 38 Новоуральск, Сведловская область 39 Обнинск, Калужская область 40 Оболенск, Московская область 41 Озерск (Челябинск-40,Челябинск-65), Челябинская область42Омск-5, Омская область 43 Орево, Московская область 44 Осташков-3, Тверская область 45 Переславль-Залесский,Ярославская область 46 Пермь-6, Пермская область 47 Правдинск, Нижегородская область 48 Приморск, Лининградская область 49 Протвино, Московская область 50 Пущино, Московская область 51 Радужный, Владимирская область 52 Редкино, Тверская область 53 Реммаш, Московская область 54 Реутов, Московская область 55 Саров (Кремлев, Арзамас-16), Нижегородская область 56 Северск (Томск-7), Томская область 57 Снежинск (Челябинск-70), Челябинская область 58 Сосновый бор, Ленинградская область 59 Томского НЦ РАН академгородок, Томская область 60 Трехгорный (Златоуст-36), Челябинская область 61 Троицк, Московская область 62 Усть-Катав,Челябинская область 63 Фрязино, Московская область 64 Химки, Московская область 65 Черноголовка, Московская область 66 Юбилейный, Московская область
БОЛТУН - НАХОДКА ДЛЯ ШПИОНА! Mikkalai 16:52, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Ambiguity---still closed?
Are these cities still closed? The article is ambiguous. Can someone who knows explain it? grendel|khan 14:54, 2005 Mar 24 (UTC)
- I am assuming you are asking about the major cities mentioned, not the "nuclear cities", which are clearly said still closed.
- Kaliningrad, Gorky, Sevastopol are open now, but I don't know since when (some time after 1991). Mikkalai 16:14, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- I think the ambiguity is real. I just got my Russian visa renewed and was given a print-out of 'restricted' cities. These are "Kazan, Samara, Vladivostok, Habarovsk, Irkutsk, Barnaul, Petropavlosk-Kamchatsky, Petrozavodsk, Sahalin, Stavropol, Perm and Rostov". The print-out doesn't explain what 'restricted' means, but just says these cities have 'a somewhat complicated registration procedure'. They are certainly not closed - I have been in Barnaul. The only difference there with resprect to other cities, is that registration in the hotel is stricter. Seabhcán 08:47, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
There is three different authorities in Russia that can make a city become closed. They all have their own list of cities and the military list is secret so it is impossible to know which ones is closed. Very difficult for a foreigner like me to know then. Mostly it is not that difficult to get into closed cities even for us foreigners, at least not if you speak russian. Just pretend to be a russian! :) I have done it many times, both in Soviet time and nowadays. The list below is far from complete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.230.27.149 (talk) 19:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Dnepropetrovsk
A lot of this article deals with one case, Dnepropetrovsk/Yuzhmash. Interesting story, but shouldn't it be moved to its own article, or to Dnepropetrovsk?24.108.37.224 (talk) 15:58, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Vilyuchinsk
The article for Vilyuchinsk says it it a closed town. Should it be added to this article? 71.219.217.129 (talk) 23:34, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, it's a closed town, and it's already listed in this article (under "Russia"). Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); November 26, 2012; 14:23 (UTC)
Krasnyoarsk-26
Is the organization referenced meant to be the Natural Resources Defense Council? I am unware of a "National Resources Defense Council" as such, although there are several Department of Defense organizations dealing with natural resources (particularly the availability of strategic ones) to some extent. The NRDC is a fairly militant pressure group, and unlikely to be involved in something led by DoD, I'd say. Would really like to see a good reference on this. 166.152.221.214 (talk) 22:02, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
United States
Is there any source other than Wikipedia that treats "closed city" as applicable to the given sites in the United States? The only modern example given is a largely decommissioned Department of Energy base that had *no* permanent population. It's not at all comparable to the Soviet/Russian practice of closed cities and it seems to have been included misguidedly or even as a lame attempt at "you do it too!" 99.249.15.40 (talk) 07:50, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Cleanup required, lot of errors
"These included cities like Perm, a center for Soviet tank production". Tanks were NEVER produced in Perm, and Perm was not closed city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.72.146.225 (talk) 07:27, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Los Alamos, New Mexico
Los Alamos, NM was missing form the US section; its location activity and inhabitants were classified during the Manhattan Project -- 65.94.40.137 (talk) 04:26, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Category
Perhaps a Category:Closed Cities would be useful? Seabhcán 16:44, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- But the name should be Category:Closed cities or even Category:Soviet closed cities. BTW, does this notion exist in other countries? China? USA? Mikkalai 18:56, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Closed cities in China & US?
There are closed cities in China also, anybody know details of this? Also, I think Los Alamos, New Mexico could have been described as a closed city during the 1940's. Seabhcán 18:09, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- In China e.g. some sections of western Hubei are closed to foreigners, e.g. the northern part of Shennongjia and the adjacent Fang County. At least they were as of July 2009. I don't know where I can find an official list of such areas, though. Vmenkov (talk) 12:37, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
For the USA, the article already has a "See also" link to Mercury, Nevada, and I would offer for consideration Quantico, Virginia, whose home page notes that the entrance to the town is guarded by a Marine Corps sentry who requires photo ID of all visitors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.205.52.162 (talk) 23:59, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
- Quantico isn't a closed town - residents and visitors alike are allowed entry and exit, which is certainly not the definition of a "closed city". Sidatio (talk) 12:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
I would say the Cheyenne Mountain Complex would qualify as a closed town, even though it's also an underground town. (Ahfretheim (talk) 06:26, 17 April 2015 (UTC))
English-speaking cities and more
It is "well-known" to the readers of fictional Cold War spy novels that Nizhny Novgorod Oblast contained villages set up like American cites, Spanish cities, etc. in order to train secret agents for infiltration. Not only is there no mention of this here, but none online either. Was this just a fictional construct that all spy novelist copied or was it real? See, for example, The Bourne Ultimatum. Student7 (talk) 18:28, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
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Baltiysk?
The article about Baltiysk (Kaliningrad Oblast) mentions it's a closed city since 1952. So do numerous other sources. How about adding it to this list? Johnnyjanko (talk) 08:35, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
Sweden
"Fårö and the northernmost parts of Gotland were closed to foreign citizens until 1998."
What was the reason for that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:3034:1:272C:1:1:735D:5295 (talk) 15:53, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Australia
Other Aboriginal areas exist, but I couldn't get the grammar good enough to make an edit Brh418 (talk) 10:11, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
Russia in para 2
Someone reading the introduction would conclude that closed cities only exist in Russia. This paragraph needs to be globalised, or reduced, or moved to a different section. In addition, there are closed areas which are not cities. For example, Foulness Island in the UK (which is a how I arrived at this article) and “Area 51” in the US. I haven’t read this article fully, but wonder if the title is inaccurate. Humphrey Tribble (talk) 01:50, 19 October 2023 (UTC)