Talk:Coaching tree

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This page is in desperate need of an update. A lot of the "current" head coaches has lost their jobs since this was published. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.236.217.29 (talk) 11:50, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Trees?

Are we to think that Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, and Marty Schottenheimer taught every coach in the NFL today. I don't think coach Lovie Smith ever coached under any of them. He coached with a coach that coached with one of those coaches, get it?

Obviously you don't get it. What you are explaining at the end is actually the whole point of creating a coaching tree. It shows a teaching relationship instead of a family relationship (see Family Tree). Marty Schottenheimer was one of the few Head Coaches who hired and influenced Tony Dungy. (Dungy was also originally hired and influenced by Chuck Noll and then later also worked under Dennis Green before he went to Tampa). Dungy was then one of the Head Coaches who hired and influenced Lovie Smith. Get it? Justvikings 18:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, you don't get my point. The fact that Bill Walsh, etc. may have hired current head coaches as assistants, and then, the assistants hired other assistants, who eventually became head coaches is irrevelant. This is just a good example of networking. The coaching style and emphasis of each individual coach is determined by the individual coach, themselves. For example, Marty Schottenheimer is primarily a defensive minded coach, whereas Cam Cameron is an offensive minded coach. Another example would be: Brian Billick coaches offense, Jack Del Rio coaches defense. Many other examples of different coaching philosophies, strengths, and emphasis can be made within the "3 trees". Finally, Tony Dungy, Monte Kiffin, and Lovie Smith developed the Tampa 2 defense, which is employed by their respective teams, as well as, as a handful mimicking defensive coordinators. Thus, they all must be disciples of Marty Schottenheimer??? Get it yet?

I get it. Coaching trees just show relationships between coaches. If you want to get into who learned which philosophy from who then you would probably have to interview each individual coach. And I'm sure that in Bill Walsh's case maybe some of the coaches that he groomed would give him credit for influencing their philosophy. Some of them may not, even though they worked for him. You could also argue where to draw the line. Can an offensive coach influence a defensive coach? Can an assistant who spends a short time under a Head Coach be counted as being part of his tree (like Dennis Green under Bill Walsh)? I admit that Coaching Trees can be ambiguous and everyone will have a different theory as to what constitutes a relationship between two coaches. However, if you compare a coaching tree to a family tree then there is only one way to determine if a relationship can be shown. A child that is actually born to a parent takes his/her place on that parents family tree regardless of whether or not that parent actually influenced that child or not. (For example, my wife is on her father's family tree even though he had no direct influence on her, other than genetically, and she never even knew him until she was 17 years old.) The point I'm trying to make is the only way to define the criteria for position on a tree is whether or not that coach was part of the Head Coaches staff. If he was on a particular coaches staff then he can be counted as being part of that particular coaches tree. Unless you can show me a reference that states otherwise I'll assume that this is the only way to define placement on a coaching tree. If you want to develop a coaching tree based only on philosophical influence then more power to you, developing such a tree would likely be problematic and I would be interested to see it. Justvikings 17:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

John Harbaugh should be under Reid, shouldn't he? --Phbasketball6 (talk) 01:44, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Leslie Frasier now has to go under the Walsh->Holmgren->Reid branch, as does Ron Rivera (Rivera could go under Landry->Ditka, too). Also, Landry->Ditka->Ryan begat Jeff Fisher. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.146.76 (talk) 02:25, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Bill O'Brien should be added under Bill Belichick on the Bill Parcells coaching tree after the recent hire DataManiac18 (talk) 14:29, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

References

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I need help modifying a link...

I found this great article about how almost all NFL coaches who will serve as NFL head coaches in the upcoming 2018 NFL season are connected to Bill Parcells & Bill Belichick. Trouble is, if someone were to click the reference link, they might not get to the right page. Can somebody please help me out with this? Thanks. Mr. Brain (talk) 03:41, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

The need for updates to this article.

The coaching trees of Bill Walsh, Marty Schottenheimer & Bill Parcells need to be seriously updated. They haven't been so in a very long time. Also, we should seriously consider creating a coaching tree for Bill Belichick on this page. If anyone is interested, please leave a message on my talk page. Mr. Brain (talk) 14:25, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Belichick coaching tree

@Mr. Brain: re: this reversion: where does the line get drawn for who should be on this list? At the moment, there are college football head coaches from the FBS, FCS, Division II, and Division III on this massive, unreadable list. It's bordering (or has crossed) into WP:FANCRUFT territory that may not be suitable for Wikipedia's, or this article's, scope. In my opinion, coaching trees should only reference assistant coaches that became head coaches at the same level they were assistants. Coaches who dropped down a level or four and became a head coach are far different from coaches who became head coaches at the same level they were previously assistants. Eagles 24/7 (C) 04:45, 22 December 2020 (UTC)