Talk:Collaboration with Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Viktor Medvedchuk (12-04-2022) 2.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:07, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

• Speaking on the removal and nomination at Commons: (1) he was just a prisoner, not a prisoner of war (POW), (2) he is a public figure, (3) yes, one can consider such image "degrading", but we have photos of many people made after their arrest; this is not forbidden by any policies. My very best wishes (talk) 18:51, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

  I read that you are an American citizen MVBW. Do you often see photos of your politicians in handcuffs taken and circulated by the government? If not, why do you think that Ukrainian politicians should be treated differently? Gitz (talk) (contribs) 20:08, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I am not familiar with US politics, but speaking about Russia/USSR (that would be closer to Ukraine), such images made after an arrest are common on our pages. See here, for example. Does such image denigrates Varlam Shalamov, a great Russian writer? Not at all. Why it should? It tells a lot more about his persecutors. My very best wishes (talk) 00:42, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 February 2023

There have been a few more assassination attempts (successful or otherwise) on collaborating "officials" since November 2022. It would be helpful to add those individuals* to the list.

The pre-2022 list is a little questionable, though I'm not really interested in editing that one.

The aforementioned *individuals are:

Pavel Ishchuk (Pavlo Ishchuk) - Berdians'k, Zaporizhzhia Region; November 1st, 2022 [Injury]; Former Chief Editor of a Local Newspaper, installed as "Deputy Head of Berdians'k Administration in Regards to Foreign Policy and Mass Communication".

Vitaly Bulyuk (Vitalii Buliuk) - Skadovs'k, Kherson Region; December 12th, 2022 [Injury]; Regional Council Deputy from "Our Land" party pre-war, installed as "Deputy Head of the Kherson Region".

Andrey Shtepa (Andrii Shetpa) - Villages of Luibymivka and Vasylivka, Kherson Region; December 22nd, 2022 [Death]; Former Village Candidate from the "UKROP" party, installed as "Head of Luibymivka Community".

Aleksey Kichigin (Oleksii Kichyhin) - Berdians'k, Zaporizhzhia Region; January 13th, 2022 [Unclear]; "LNR official" since 2014, installed as "Head of Berdians'k Administration" (Russian State sources claimed that he survived unscathed on January 13th, whereas a Ukrainian official from the region claimed his death on January 16th).

Valentina Mamay (Valentyna Mamai) - Berdians'k, Zaporizhzhia Region; January 24th, 2023 [Injury]; City Councillor from OPZZh pre-war, unclear position post-war (Ukrainian Sources note her holding some low-level "administrative posts", Russian State Sources identify her as a local 'entrepreneur', if not "relevant" enough or deserving of a "collaborationist" mantle, could be ignored).

Yevgeny Kuzmin (Yevhen Kuzmin) - Enerhodar, Zaporizhzhia Region; February 3rd, 2023 [Death]; Member of Law Enforcement in the Region pre-war; unclear position in the same Department during the Occupation.

(The first naming standard is Russophone, while the one in the brackets is Ukrainophone; the list mostly utilizes the Russophone one)

Can provide at least two sources for each individual.

I'd also request a removal of Davyd Zhvania from the list. Deeming him a collaborator doesn't seem to make much sense. He participated in Ukrainian political life as a Pro-Russian politician in the past, correct, but he never collaborated with the invading Russian forces (and was, in fact, killed by them, almost certainly on accident). Pro-Russian political positions pre-war make for more likely collaborators, but it's definitely not a guarantee.

I think the Kireyev and Dem'ianenko sections are also questionable, especially given the recently released material, but I'm not really interested in arguing about either.

Side note: Yes, it's obvious one cannot tell the perpetrators of these assassinations (or attempts). But the list features everyone, regardless.

This is likely an incomplete list, but it's unlikely there will be a complete one during the war, anyhow.

Thank you. UkraineThreeLetterAgencyShill1917 (talk) 08:32, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Hello @UkraineThreeLetterAgencyShill1917, Thanks for the info! I'll try to put in your suggestions to the table once I can find references for it.

About pre-2022, Kyiv, and Davyd Zhvania, I too was conflicted over the inclusion of these persons due to the questionable reporting and tag of collaborationist; but included them anyhows. To your concerns, they were included due to direct translation from the UKR:Wiki of the same article. Maybe they have a reason on its inclusion? you can try asking them, but your concerns are valid. For now, I'll remove Davyd Zhvania from the list. Cheers! Kaliper1 (talk) 13:52, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Cheers to you, @Kaliper1, as well. Thank you for adding the new info.

As for Zhvania, yeah, I think I'll visit the Ukrainian version of the page.

All the best. UkraineThreeLetterAgencyShill1917 (talk) 07:20, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Closing request as  Partly done:. Lizthegrey (talk) 08:31, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

What about the calls for peace is that illegal in the text?

does it say it or at least sorta says it? its unclear. 82.209.142.251 (talk) 05:33, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Denys Kireyev

Denys Kireyev may need to be removed. Sounds like some sort of Triple agent thing might have been going on, or some confusion in any case. Occono (talk) 02:25, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree, he should be removed. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 11:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Anti Vaxxer statement not relevant

Unless anyone can give me a reason why it's there, I think it should be removed. Someone's opinion on vaccines doesn't really have anything to do with their personal views. 137.103.66.51 (talk) 06:56, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 1 October 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus, two different options have been proposed but no consensus was reached for either (WP:NOGOODOPTIONS) (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 14:28, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

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Collaboration with Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine → Ukrainian collaboration with Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine – Seems to be specifically dealing with Ukrainian collaboration with Russia and not other countries. GnocchiFan (talk) 15:59, 1 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BegbertBiggs (talk) 23:42, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Collaboration during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This satisfies both WP:CRITERIA of conciseness and precision, unambiguously identifying the article and its subject. Neither Ukraine nor Russia needs to be mentioned twice. —Michael Z. 14:40, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.