Talk:Collaborations between ex-Beatles

Date formats

To enable tables to be sorted into date sequence by clicking the column headers, dates need to be entered in the right format. I've embedded comments asking people to use "{{date|yyyy-mm-dd|none}}". The inclusion of {{date}} is to give good definition in the wikitext to assist with making any changes to date format that become possible/desirable in the future. PL290 (talk) 08:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I've gone off my original idea of using yyyy-mm-dd! It sorts well but it's ugly to view. In any case I think it's better with just years for the purpose of this article. Since it's the acts of collaboration over the decades that are of primary interest to this article, I've also now made the recording year the first column, and added a release year column, so both are shown. The idea is to highlight the year that each collaboration started. The related article can be viewed for full date details if required, as the footnotes now invite. PL290 (talk) 09:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Anthology

Although it incorporated material Lennon had recorded prior to his death, it is McCartney, Harrison and Starr who are deemed to be the collaborators for the purpose of any Anthology releases included in this article. Also, pure compilations of existing Beatles recordings released during the Anthology project are not deemed to be new collaborations. PL290 (talk) 12:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

They aren't deemed collaborations because you say so? There should be a vote. - Angry Wikipedia user —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.150.229 (talk) 15:12, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Not because I say so (I am not Humpty Dumpty). Please look the word up and you will see that it's to do with working together (co + labor...) which is something living people do. PL290 (talk) 15:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Seconding last comment and also noting that there is a widespread tendency in online media to make of, for example, remix or sampling projects in music, a 'collaboration', on the subject of which, I'd like to propose that Liverpool Sound Collage is removed as it involves participation of Paul with TAPES, not ex-Beatles. To propose a distinction, Paul recently collaborated with Bloody Beetroots on a track called 'Out of Sight' based upon The Fireman's 'Nothing's Too Much Just Out Of Sight'. When I first heard it I said 'that's not a collaboration, just a remix' but it turns out that he also PARTICIPATED by re-recording vocals for the new track. Meanwhile, the recent reports that he's collaborated with Straight No Chaser on an accapella version of 'Wonderful Christmastime' have proved to be exaggerated as he merely supplied them with TAPES. Now some will say that because he's alive and handed them the tapes, that's collaboration but it's more accurately a CO-OPERATION. Excuse my caps but they seemed to be worth using. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelk xsx (talk • contribs) 05:10, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

You're Sixteen

The table had all 4 involved as collaborators on "You're Sixteen" per the "You're Sixteen" article, but I notice Lennon and Harrison got taken out. However, it was the same year as the album "Ringo", and the article "Ringo" also says it involved all of them, so it appears likely the "You're Sixteen" article is correct. So I'll put them back. But if someone has a good source that says otherwise, please update the You're Sixteen article with it and update the table again here. PL290 (talk) 07:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia can not be used as its own source. Though many sources list McCartney's involvement in You're Sixteen, only the Wikipedia article claimed Harrison and Lennon had any involvement, and that was mysteriously added late on in that article's evolution. Though all The Beatles worked in some form on that album, all four were never together on one track. 90.209.49.62 (talk) 18:27, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Eric Clapton's Wedding

Eric Clapton writes in his autobiography that Paul, George and Ringo all attended his wedding in 1979 and played a set, but that he'd forgotten to invite John. Since they did play together, should that qualoify as a live performance, even though it was a private venue? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Strangebrownbag (talk • contribs) 19:53, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Water (Film)

Harrison and Starr both appeared as part of an all-star band (also including Eric Clapton and Mike Moran) backing Billy Connolly at the end of the film "Water" in the mid '80s. Although they appeared together on stage, given that it was a film performance, someone with better researching skills maybe should confirm whether they genuinely played the music in question or were just miming something recorded by session players before we can count it as a live collaboration?217.113.170.97 (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

No, it was simply an appearance in front of the cameras (at Shepparton Studios in 1984, I think - I've got the refs somewhere). But I agree it could be worth including - in that a "Film" collaboration section might be useful. As well as Water, I'm thinking of the Imagine/Gimme Some Truth documentary featuring John and George; the Bangladesh concert movie obviously; Ringo's 1978 TV special (G & R); Wings' 1979 Wings Over the World doc (R presents flowers to P on stage); Mac's Give My Regards to Broad Street, er, movie (with R); the 1985 Carl Perkins TV special, released on video (G & R); George's video for "When We Was Fab" (with R); Tom Petty's video for "I Won't Back Down" (G & R) ... Probably loads more to add (eg I'm sure George appeared in one of John & Yoko's NYC art movies in 1970-71 - I remember seeing something in Badham's Beatles Diary Vol. 2), which is why a Film section could be worth considering. JG66 (talk) 03:51, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

"live"

Should the Threetles sessions circa 1995 be added? As per the Anthology vids, they played indoors and out in a live setting. Also, I would suggest "A Toot & A Snore" be removed from records and put under "live" - albeit live in a studio. It was bootlegged, but was only a jam, not a recording date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.182.192.78 (talk) 22:53, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

New section or add to LIVE

We've totally ignored videos, from When We Was Fab, So Bad, Take It Away, Broadstreet. So, should we make another section for Video, or combine it with "Live" performances? Hotcop2 (talk) 16:12, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Merge discussion

Merge The Beatles reunions into Collaborations between ex-Beatles. I mean, these articles are pretty much the same, except that this one is much more complete and is more appropriately titled (there never was a Beatles reunion, but only collaborations). --The Evil IP address (talk) 12:16, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Remove Liverpool Sound Collage

I've already added a comment to another section mentioning this proposal but to be clearer, even if we say that Paul collaborating with some tapes is Paul collaborating with ex-Beatles, then it's still wrong because the tapes were of Beatles not ex-Beatles. I think it's too much of stretch. Unless The Beatles are 'collaborating' with Jay Z and Dangermouse on The Grey Album and other such remix projects.Michaelk xsx (talk) 05:20, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

• The reason I added that is because McCartney actually credits the tracks to The Beatles (alongside himself and some other people). That being said, I won't object to you removing it. The Wookieepedian (talk) 07:33, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Understood and thanks for explanation. 'Collaboration' does seem to be a very strange word these days in general around the Web and while I would tend to think McCartney's crediting is marketing, it is the case that tape which has recorded The Beatles in a studio is generally understood to be 'The Beatles' for cultural purposes. But he's still not collaborating with any ex-Beatles here. I'm not proposing to remove it but we may have to hold a General Election on what collaboration means ;-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelk xsx (talk • contribs) 20:05, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

It makes it seem Lennon and Harrison came back from the dead to contribute because you interrupted the "grey scale of death". They did it when they were Beatles anyway, so I don't think it belongs here in a collaboration of ex-Beatles. Hotcop2 (talk) 21:58, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, it was a silly thing to add. The Wookieepedian (talk) 22:22, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Name of the article

The name of the article is a bit unlogical, because the eartliest collaborations are between members of the band, when they played still together. —87.95.126.50 (talk) 18:25, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

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Name change/contributions

This page has gotten silly and over-reaching. The original, clearer "collaborations between ex-Beatles" was fine. "Collaborations between solo Beatles" if you're a stickler. This is clunky. Also, Harrison did not contribute to "Grow Old With Me" and Ringo's song; Ringo has plenty of songs where he's referencing lyrics and music form all ex Beatles. This is really a stretch. Finally, not even Wikipedia editors are more powerful than God; as much as we'd all love to, we cannot stop the "grey spaces of death." Hotcop2 (talk) 13:31, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

The result of the name change is truly an eyesore, imo. On the stickler point, perhaps it should be "... between former Beatles" (rather than ex-), but I wouldn't push it. The point to consider is reader interaction with the title. Are readers likely to think "Collaborations between ex-Beatles" implies only occasions when they worked together in pairs, or that there were only two members of the Beatles anyway? I really don't believe so.

Most definitions of "between" do highlight the pair aspect, but the word does correspond to the idea of two or more entities also. Eg, this online definition:

4. indicating a connection or relationship involving two or more parties. ...

5. by combining the resources or actions of (two or more people or other entities). ...

For that reason, and the unnecessary wordiness of the new title, I think the page move should be undone. JG66 (talk) 15:54, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

AgreedHotcop2 (talk) 22:00, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

I second that. – zmbro _(talk) 22:29, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Strange list ... possible solutions

These Wikipedia lists confuse me at the best of times, especially when – as is the case here – the list has been pulled together with little or no direct precedent in third party sources. Okay, many reliable sources discuss the various collaborations between the former Beatles, but it's not as if anyone gives the subject such dedicated coverage; so this page ends up being a Wikipedia creation, synthesising all that disparate commentary. I'd like to try to address the problems, including those that have been raised in previous threads here: eg, #Water (Film), #New section or add to LIVE, #Remove Liverpool Sound Collage, #Name of the article and #Name change/contributions.

Repetition and inconsistency across Albums and Singles sections

We currently have an overlap of information between Albums and Singles, although this is not applied consistently (ie, some album tracks that were also issued on singles do not have a second entry under Singles). I can't see a reason for the repetition; that the likes of My Sweet Lord, Mother, Photograph, Only You, Take It Away, When We Was Fab happen to have been pulled out for single release has no relevance at all in the context of this list – they're not separate collaborations. Also, with Lon & Derrek Van Eaton's "Sweet Music", it's the only collaborative track on Brother, same with Nilsson's "Daybreak" on Son of Dracula, so having two entries for each collaboration is even more redundant.

I think the most logical thing is to combine Albums and Singles. Perhaps the title of each album could be followed by mention of key or best-known collaborative tracks (eg, MSL, Mother, Photograph, etc). But otherwise, the only singles that need an entry would be non-album singles and any B-sides that weren't on the album even if the A-side was.

Illogical inclusion of collaborations before the break-up

As has been raised here before, I can't understand the logic of including collaborations from before the break-up, at least not in the way they're currently presented. The page title couldn't be any clearer ("ex-Beatles") and from the start, the lead, quite logically, prepares the reader for a list that concerns the Beatles as a spent force and the four members as former bandmates. I just don't buy the explanation that pre–break-up collaborations are listed "for historical interest"; it seems more a case of listing them for the sake of it. It's a bit of a grey area, admittedly, when a collaboration started not long before the break-up but the album was released afterwards (eg, Doris Troy, Billy Preston's Encouraging Words).

I think the 1967–early '70 collaborations should have a separate section right at the end, if they have to appear at all. Readers will see the section in the table of contents, and the statement about "historical interest" can move there as an introduction to the section. Anyway, there's at least one earlier collaboration that's missing: the Silkie's 1965 version of "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away".

Albums on which two or more ex-Beatles appear, but there's no collaboration as such

One or two editors have also said there's something of a "stretch" in the apparent criteria for inclusion, or there has been over the years. I think that applies to the inclusion of Jeff Lynne's Armchair Theater and Carl Perkins' Go Cat Go! Two or more ex-Beatles play or contribute to those albums but not on the same tracks, so there's no collaboration at all.

Again, it's not as if every example of such [non]-collaborations are included, anyway. Eg, the EP 4: John Paul George Ringo and a film soundtrack (can't remember the title) that had "Imagine" or something else by Lennon and a song by Harrison or McCartney. On the other hand, I'd say Nobody's Child: Romanian Angel Appeal does belong: Harrison compiled the album, sought contributions from friends like Starr, and got it released through his record company, Warner Bros. Records.

New section for music videos and TV/films A couple of us have pointed out the need to include music videos. This would make the Take It Away and When We Was Fab singles, for instance, standalone collaborations (separate from the albums); similarly, although I recently removed Tom Petty's Full Moon Fever (because Starr doesn't play on the album), the video for "I Won't Back Down" is an example of two ex-Beatles collaborating.

Just a thought on this new section: there's an obvious overlap between TV/films and the existing section on Live performances (eg, The Concert for Bangladesh, Carl Perkins' Rockabilly Session, several more). My suggestion would be to focus on a section devoted to Music videos and TV/film appearances, taking in several of the entires currently under Live appearances, and then retitle the latter "Other live performances".

If anyone's got any thoughts on all the above, please weigh in. I'm in no great rush – the problems have been here forever, it seems – but I'll start imposing these changes (solutions, I hope) unless someone's got a better idea. I'll certainly add the Nobody's Child compilation now. JG66 (talk) 14:20, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Apple Jam and other pre-1970 collaborations

Hotcop2, re your comment "they weren't ex-Beatles in 1969; this is a list of collaborations between ex-Beatles which begins in 1970", as the IP wrote, we do include the 1969 Live Jam J & G collaboration that ended up on Some Time in New York City. And as mention in my post above, the list includes other non-band collaborations going back to 1967; the article even states "Collaborations that began before the break-up are included for historical interest." I question whether these should be included (among a range of issues I have with the page), but fact is they have been for a while. JG66 (talk) 15:04, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

There is the first column, "years recorded," which could be adjusted for ATMP, which fixes the issue. Hotcop2 (talk) 17:43, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I don’t know if it’s been talked about but what of the Appearance of John Lennon singing with Paul McCartney via Archival footage on McCartneys latest tour?

I’m not sure if this has been discussed or not I’m just wanting to get a consensus so we don’t put something we shouldnt Spongehog (talk) 20:59, 19 October 2022 (UTC)