Talk:College admissions in the United States/Archive 1

Archive 1

Information Should be added

The ACT, which is the preferred test for the middle section of the country, is not mentioned here at all. Also, not all colleges require seperate aplications. Case in point, colleges who accept the Common App.Ruairi irish 00:48, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

==

Some of this content is not my writing, but copied from college admissions.

==

I think the assertion that Harvard University derives most of its prestige from its graduate and professional schools is biased. Regardless of how Harvard, Yale, or Princeton actually do stack up, Harvard's preeminent reputation was set long before any of these universities had graduate schools, by virtue of its age if nothing else. And Harvard (along with Yale and Princeton) held a unique place in American popular culture in the early 1900s even as their graduate schools were catching up to the standards held by Hopkins and Chicago. Maybe Harvard doesn't deserve the reputation it has, but I don't think that in most people's minds its stature derives from its graduate schools alone.

NPOV

The fact that you wrote this all yourself is...well, impressive. I'm gonna try editing some stuff for NPOV risque language. EagleFalconn 06:30, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, please do, this is intolerably POV as it is. (eg "now more the province of less successful people who have failed to rise in life and must cling to the name of successful institutions.") There really ought to be more citation as well. 68.124.22.75 22:54, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

The entire lead paragraph is about the role of "class" in college admissions, not the actual process itself. Then there's a whole section about class that's completely unsourced and way too opinionated. (Also, the writing is disorganized and very poor.) I think this article needs some serious rewriting, and much of what's in it now probably needs to be deleted. Yaguar 11:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

POV

When discussing the amount of applications submitted by students from their respective classes the author lacks empirical evidence to support his information, and seems to be extrapolating on his/her own experiences with high schools students and the relation of their economic class to their attitude towards applying to college. Although some of these attitudes might be prevalent in the U.S. amoung the classes mentioned, they are more stereotypical in their assertions, and should not be placed in an article in an encyclopedia unless they are labeled as such.

Example:

"Upper-class students usually apply to four or fewer, and may boast about how few applications they wrote or how little (if at all) they prepared for the SAT."

Armcpeek 04:10, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

The bit on the correlation between social class and number of applications can probably disappear, though it seems to be accurate. Since getting into top undergrads is very difficult for middle-class students-- even perfect SATs and top high school grades don't suffice-- and very easy for well-connected "upper class" students, it's actually true, but maybe not germane to the article. (Not everything that is true about a subject belongs in its article.) It's also not uncommon for people to brag about writing few applications, though not obvious that this is done to affect upper-class status; more likely, it's just general slacker boasting. Czar Dragon 20:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

This article is in dire need of citations. --Xtreambar 18:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

---

"college admissions offices generally consider it impossible to measure or compare the quality of students' extracurricular activities." What about recruited athletes?

== Easy for private school students to get into Harvard? == 

The statement admission into "Harvard is taken as an entitlement at the nation's top prep schools, [citation needed] even by mediocre students" is incorrect. No mediocre students get into Harvard unless they have unbelievable talents. Simply going to a fancy private school doesn't write your ticket into any of the most selective schools. In fact, most colleges are slightly biased against private school students; as they are over-represented in the application process. This statement is biased and should be removed. 216.57.86.131 03:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Biased writing

I think this entire paragraph needs to be removed or seriously rewritten:

"The college admissions process is intrinsically unfair, despite what major universities say. Many students sacrifice their adolescence to gain acceptance to these prestigious schools only to learn that those sleepless nights and solitary Saturday nights were in vain. Often, these students end up attending colleges where they are overqualified because they cannot gain admission to schools that are at their level. Thousands of qualified applicants are turned away every year on the whim of an admissions bureaucrat. It is widely agreed that the system needs to be reformed, but in the last 20 years, universities have become so powerful that it is unlikely such reforms will ever occur."

This paragraph was probably written by a frustrated rejectee, and while it is probably true, it is highly subjective and its tone is not suitable for an encyclopedia article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.50.250.229 (talk) 15:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

I have removed this. It is a blantant violation of Wikipedia's NPOV rule. --LHon

=

POV and unsourced material

This material is not sourced and is POV reading like original research. It needs to be sourced and re-written as NPOV before being restored back into the article. See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and Wikipedia:Attribution. -Classicfilms 16:04, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Application process

While the process has been, to some degree, standardized, college admissions are generally not centralized, and certainly not on a national level. Admissions criteria vary among institutions, and even from year to year within an institution. Despite this variance, it is understood that certain factors in an application — such as SAT scores and high school grades — can play a decisive if not pivotal role in determining an applicant's perceived desirability.

Students from low-income backgrounds — considered fortunate even to be able to attend college — may submit few applications or even only one, to a nearby local school. By contrast, upper-middle-class students in urban areas usually apply to five or more, sometimes as many as 20. There is a stereotype that upper-class students usually apply to four or fewer and may boast about how few applications they submitted or how little (if at all) they prepared for the SAT. This may result from the fact that it is easier for upper-class students to attain admission to some top colleges than for middle-class students of comparable ability.

While it may seem excessive for a person to apply to as many as 10 colleges, this is commonly done because high school students usually must submit all applications before knowing the results on any. Students who are "shut out" (that is, admitted nowhere because of unrealistic expectations or submitting too few applications) can usually attain admission somewhere — in the worst case scenario, they re-apply a year later — but rarely at the quality of institution they could attend if their process had been better researched. Also, colleges in the United States vary vastly in measures such as size, location, lifestyle, and personality, and it is common for a student not to know his or her best "fit" at the time of application.

Therefore, students are to be evaluated on general academic promise rather than proficiency in one discipline. Based on a number of factors, detailed below, colleges decide either to admit or reject a student based primarily on his or her academic promise and likelihood to attend. "Borderline" students may also be wait-listed, which means that they may be admitted later, but that the decision will rely on information that is not yet available, often pertaining to the makeup of the incoming class. (Students who are wait-listed are advised, if they wish to be admitted, to furnish updated information on grades, achievements and, most importantly, to indicate interest in attending, For a wait-listed student, it may be his or her interest in attending rather than academic ability which is in doubt.)

Some students, often legacy students, may be accepted for the following year; for example, a student applying for the class of 2010 (fall 2006 entry) may be admitted into the class of 2011. In this case, he or she may either take a gap year or attend another school. Some colleges allow students to voluntarily defer matriculation for one year to take a gap year, but this is rare at the undergraduate level.

There is a perception that smaller colleges accentuate the subjective components while large universities tend to be more numerical.

Culture

The United States lacks a specific hierarchy of its colleges and universities, and therefore there is no general consensus as to which are most desirable. The Ivy League is often venerated (and sometimes incorrectly used as a synonym for "great school") though few would argue it to represent the eight absolute best colleges in the country — rather, it is a collection of eight highly respected ones.

In some social circles, the prestige of one's undergraduate college is taken to be a measure of a person's intellectual and personal qualities.

The prestige of an undergraduate college is determined by a number of factors:

University prominence

The prominence of the university — in sports, research, and culture — plays a major role in determining the prestige of the associated college. However, the quality of the affiliated university is not an unimportant factor in undergraduate decision-making; successful undergraduates usually begin research by the junior or senior year, and sometimes working with top professors and university resources.

Geography

Colleges in urban and northeastern locales are considered to be more desirable and academic because of their environment, and therefore more prestigious. For example, all of the Ivy League colleges are in the northeastern United States, with three in or near major cities. There is some basis for the above-mentioned perception, as there is higher demand among students for colleges in desirable locations, and therefore these institutions can be more selective.

Teaching quality

The perceived quality of teaching, as well as the educational model of an institution, can affect a college's prestige, especially within academia. Though Nobel Prize winners or similarly lauded academics may not teach many undergraduates if any at all, it is considered prestigious to have them on the faculty.

Acceptance rate

Acceptance rates vary widely among undergraduate colleges, sometimes being as low as 10%, or as high as 100% (open admissions), and often the prestige of a college is taken to vary inversely with its acceptance rate. This is generally viewed by knowledgeable people to be a poor measure of an institution's quality because of the corrupting influence of marketing as well as the role played by a college's prominence. For example, the University of Chicago, while as selective as some of the "Ivies", has a notoriously high acceptance rate for one reason: Weaker students are scared by its reputation as being "too hard" and don't apply, or mistakenly believe it to be a public university.

Yield

Yield is the percentage of students accepted to a university or college who attend it, held by some to be a referendum on the institution's desirability. Since this is the measure given most value by undergraduate admissions departments, undergraduate admissions offices often try to optimize it by seeking "best fit" students who are highly likely to attend if admitted.

Factors in admissions

As stated above, college admissions in the United States are not centralized. Among the most important factors in college admissions are high school grades, difficulty of a student's high school course selection, and scores on the SAT or ACT, the nation's two most prevalent undergraduate admissions exams. The reputation of the high school is also important — admission to an Ivy such as Harvard is taken as an entitlement at the nation's top prep schools, even by mediocre students, though uncommon at even the best public schools; at public schools with average reputations, admission to Ivy League colleges is considered unattainable for most students. Teacher recommendations are often considered, especially if other recommendations from that teacher are on file for comparison.

An underrated but crucial factor in gaining admission to elite colleges is the absolute necessity that a student indicate interest in the college or university. Yield — the percentage of accepted students who attend that college — is taken by college deans and admissions officers to be the "bottom line" of an institution's prestige as well as an indicator of the current direction of the school's reputation, valued even more than U.S. News-style rankings because it is objective. (Moreover, from a practical standpoint, a high yield rate reduces the statistical uncertainty in the composition of the incoming class.) To gain admission to an elite institution, an applicant must indicate steadfast intention to attend if accepted; this includes (if not requires) gestures such as attending a tour, requesting materials from the college, and interviewing with an alumnus/alumna of the college. At the most selective institutions — such as the Ivy League colleges — failure to indicate such a level of interest ensures rejection. However, some colleges state that showing interest is not a factor in admission, such as Stanford.^[1]

Of tertiary importance are extracurricular activities — clubs, service activities, and athletic or musical talents — though it is common for U.S. students to overestimate their importance in admissions. While it is very damaging to a student's application for him or her to have no extracurricular involvement, college admissions offices generally consider it impossible to measure or compare the quality of students' extracurricular activities.

A widespread misconception, most common among the middle (as opposed to upper) class, is that, because it is difficult for many students to attain admissions to colleges such as Harvard even with perfect SATs and grades, these colleges seek an amorphous "something extra" in terms of the applicant's personal qualities — charisma, maturity, or (from a more cynical perspective) social class. This is false: In truth, admissions officers readily admit that it is impossible to evaluate applicants at such a fine level, given their limited resources and time. What accounts for the "something extra", in actuality, is that most middle-class families have no idea how to apply to elite institutions; the most common mistake is that the applicant fails to establish and prove interest in attending.

Many colleges also use affirmative action to increase the racial and geographical diversity of the student body. Whites and Asians, especially from coastal states, are perceived to suffer a disadvantage by this policy, and therefore it is highly controversial. For instance, in 2006, minority students received 44.4% of University of Pennsylvania acceptances, 39.5% of Dartmouth College acceptances, 39.4% of Harvard acceptances, 39% of Brown University acceptances, and 38.5% of Cornell University acceptances. According to the study done at Princeton University in 2005, if racial preferences were eliminated, black and Hispanic acceptance rates would dramatically fall, and four out of five admissions spots that would have been offered to those students would instead be turned over to Asian students. The effect on admission rates for white students would not be pronounced. Study PDF of study

Children of a college's alumni receive preferential treatment in admissions — this is known as the legacy preference. If the family is a major donor to the college (ca. U.S.$ 250,000 or more) the likelihood of a student's admission increases dramatically.

Need-blind, need-Aware admission and guaranteeing to meet full need

It is therefore important to always ask colleges and universities, even those that are "need-blind", whether they guarantee to meet full need. If a school does not guarantee to meet full need, other questions to ask include the percentage of students who apply for aid and have their full need met, the amount of an average financial aid package, and how the typical financial aid package is broken down (i.e., loans, grants, work-study, etc.) Other schools practice what is called "need aware" admissions: They consider the ability of students to pay in deciding who to admit.

Less well-endowed universities such as Tufts University and Washington University in St. Louis have need-aware admissions policies, where some high-achieving applicants may be wait-listed or even rejected because the school cannot provide enough aid for the applicant's education. This is known as "admit-deny." Some of these schools will still meet the full financial needs, however dire, of the not-so-well-off students they accept. At the same time, schools such as Tufts have made need-blind admission their top priority, with the size of their endowment being the largest hurdle to adopting such a policy.

Few schools in the U.S. are need-blind for international applicants. For the most part, these are the most selective schools in the U.S. As of now, there are only six schools in the US that are need blind for international students, namely MIT, Harvard University, Yale University, Princeton University, Williams College and Middlebury College (contributed by Ahsan Rahim). Additionally, very few U.S. schools offer any form of financial aid for international applicants. Some schools do offer merit scholarships, based on academic achievement, to international students even though they may not offer financial aid. "Full rides" to U.S. colleges and universities are extremely rare for international students. The few colleges that do set aside financial aid for international students often offer it only to the best qualified applicants. Therefore, international undergraduate students who need substantial financial aid to study in the United States must have exceptional grades and test scores to maximize their chances of receiving it.

Yield protection

Yield protection refers to the methods colleges and universities use to maximize yield (see above). Often, "yield protection" is taken as a charged term (hence, the euphemism "yield optimization") that refers to the practice of wait-listing (that is, delaying a firm decision on the applicant's admission until further information about the applicant and incoming class emerges) or rejecting "overqualified" students and therefore signifying an institutional inferiority complex. (This is an extreme and rare form of yield optimization.) In truth, virtually all elite undergraduate institutions use methods of yield maximization, and consider a student's likelihood of attendance foremost in their admissions decisions.

Role of social class

Socioeconomic status plays a remarkable role in students' decisions whether or not to attend college, where to go, and moreover their success at the admissions process. While this link is controversial, there is little doubt that it exists. Social class is possibly as relevant as intellectual ability in determining the outcome of a student's application process. This is not because admissions officers are classist though there are various reasons for this phenomenon. Some argue that social class plays a major role in determining the quality of information to which a student will have access during the process. It is very unlikely that a lower or lower-middle-class student will know how to apply to the Ivy League colleges. By contrast, upper-middle-class students often have access to expensive admissions counselors, who have often worked as admissions officers at prestigious colleges, while upper-class students benefit from family connections and exclusive prep schools that guarantee, even for mediocre students, top college placement. It should be noted, however, that in recent years government pressure and institutional reform have negated much of the information-based advantage of upper-middle-class applicants. Still, another possible cause of the relationship between college admission and social class is consideration of the reputation of an applicant's high school. Because the "best" high schools are found predominantly in affluent school districts, and because those affluent school districts have a history of sending students to prestigious universities, those universities come to regard those school districts as superior to others (which, because of complex financial and social factors, they often are). In other words, an A at one particular high school may not be as impressive as an A at a "better" school.

Common Application?

As someone who's just gone through all that college application stuff not just in the US, but overseas, I'm wondering if the Common Application should be so prominent in the Wiki article. Although the list of colleges that use the Common App is pretty extensive, I'm pretty sure most people just apply directly to the university. If I were a foreigner, say from the United Kingdom, I would guess that the Common App would be the only way to fly (the US equivalent of the UK's UCAS system), when in reality the actual solution is to apply directly to your Uni.