Talk:Commedia dell'arte/Archive 1

Archive 1

absence of historical background

This article presently says that the Commedia developed in early modern times. I realize that the matter is somewhat speculative, but I think that the idea that the Commedia represents a rural survival of the Oscan-Roman Fabula Attelana should at least be mentioned. 64.89.246.203 (talk) 02:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

This has to be compared with the Turkish "Orta Oyunu" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.219.1 (talk • contribs)

development

"first known record of a professional C.D.A. company is from 1545, when eight men in Padua signed a contract to form a troupe..."pg.11 "...improvisation, a concept that should not be taken too literally."pg.17 "Improvised thus meant "not written by a single author but cobbled together from many sources"; "conceived and invented by actors"-- a truly revolutionary phenomenon."pg.22

from "Harlequin On the Moon: Commedia dell' Arte and the Visual Arts" by Lynne Lawner, pub.1998.

I have found no formal requirements of number of characters in C.D.A. I recommend removing any stipulation as such or at least stating that C.D.A. typically has between 8-12 performers.

I think it would also be of value to include information of C.D.A's development of 'lazzi' is based on the need to keep audiences' attention due to local customs and dialects that may have been lost on the less cultured populace as they traveled outside of originating regions.

Cityzen (talk) 15:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Characters

Wouldn't it suffice to have just the links to the longer character articles rather than the semi-lengthy summaries presented here along with the links? Portia1780 (talk) 19:20, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I have a fairly strong suspicion that Carlo Omlette Du Fromage Gozzi is a false or adulterated name. 134.190.10.15 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:55, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

this article says that there where 8 men and 2 women but in another article it explained 7 men and 3 women! Which article is write —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.175.169.161 (talk) 22:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Carlo Omlette Du Fromage Gozzi is bogus (though there is one non-Wiki. hit on Google.) Somebody has already corrected it to Carlo Gozzi, which is correct. — Robert Greer (talk) 20:34, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I do not believe that the proper names are "Il Georgio", or "Blanalone", or "Hugomorati". I rather believe that it is supposed to be "Il Capitano" and "Pantalone" and "Innamorati". If any of you guys watching this may care to research, I am quite sure you will find that my claims are true and deem these changes vandalism. --The Two Scimitars... (talk) 07:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

"A troupe of the 1580's typically consisted of ten or eleven personages: two old men, the Venetian merchant and paterfamilias known as Pantaloon (given the title Magnifico, and sometimes called Cassandro) and the Doctor (that is, a doctor of law, a man of learning); two male servants, called 'zanni'; a young female servant, often called Columbine, and an older one; and a pair of Lovers. To these could be added a Captain and a few other figures, such as Brighella, who is a scamp (and similar to a zanni), but not a servant. Pulcinella, too, is of an intermediate status difficult to pinpoint. Harlequin and Pedrolino belong to the servant group." -Harlequin On The Moon... Cityzen (talk) 21:56, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Article Issues

• I have consolidated the two initial templates (and added a "wikify" template) into an "Article Issues" template at the top of the page. The article appears to need some restructuring: One of the sections contains a single sentence, and a large portion of the page appears to be a list (which should be formatted as such). Finally, I have added a "no references" template to the section "Subjects of the Commedia dell'arte". bwmcmaste (talk) 20:18, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Have converted the short prose descriptions to a single sentence with wiki links. Most of the sources explain the characters in great detail which can be added to the separate pages and this page will be devoted to history and definition of the art form? Will start adding the citations asap. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:43, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

What is Commedia dell'arte?

Whoever put in that commedia began in the 12th century has no basis in fact or documentation. Please stay off this page if you just want to speculate without any grounding in research or fact. (Pcastagn 13:49, 24 October 2011 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pcastagn (talk • contribs)

This article wants to jump into specifics without starting off with a simple definition. I hate having to read three times that Commedia dell'arte is performed outside, and yet still not have any clue what it is. Doubledragons (talk) 21:41, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

For instance...

"Commedia dell'arte is the Italian term for "comedy of the craft." It's also known as "Italian theater" and "Italian comedy." It's a varied form of often-improvised theatrical comedy, with various subforms, that's defined by its stock characters and stock subjects. The stock characters include Harlequin, Pantalone, Pulcinella, and Dottore. The scenarios included adultery, jealousy, old age, and love."

Doubledragons (talk) 19:46, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Nice definition. If you could add the source here, then it's good to go in the article! Btw -- don't forget to start new conversations at the bottom of the page. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Would it be relevant to discuss Commedia Dell'Arte as it appears in the modern day as well as what it was back in Italy, since there are still practitioners who are doing it and not just things inspired by it? Also, I had to perform an evaluation of this article for a class, so here it is if anyone should care to look at it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aerinaldi13/Evaluate_an_Article?veaction=edit&preload=Template%3ADashboard.wikiedu.org_evaluate_articleAerinaldi13 (talk) 02:08, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Primary Topic of Commedia?

see Talk:Commedia#Primary topic if you are interested in this topic. (John User:Jwy talk) 23:00, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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Section called "Women" removed

I have removed the following text from the article, since it is unsourced and possible OR. If you can provide citations to support some or all of this text, feel free to move it back into the article:

Women were allowed to be on stage even though at the time it would not have been usual. It was also suggested that women parts were played by prostitutes and that "Men, women, and children together, wandering gypsylike from country fair to city carnival, setting up their temporary stages wherever they might hope for a few pennies from the crowd, free for half an hour from the interference of civil or ecclesiastical officers. They were compelled to lurk in corners partly because they sold quack medicines of doubtful composition...." Many believe that female roles in commedia dell'arte were underdeveloped since this was the first form of theatre to allow women on stage. Also, women were taking on other roles later on, not necessarily tied to stage performance. "When they (the actors) enter a city, a drum immediately lets everyone know their arrival; the woman dressed as a man goes ahead, sword in hand, to make the announcement and invite the populace to a comedy or a tragedy in a palace or at the Pilgrim Inn..." When looking at the way they lived and travelled, women had the same living style and living space as men did, which is really special in the era in which Commedia dell'arte thrived. These companies were very progressive compared to the time period. Still, they were constantly accused and in scandal all the time. During this time period women were not very educated and most could not read or write. However women roles were usually the smartest in scenes. On an intelligence spectrum of the stock characters,form low to high, it may look like this: "Pedrolino, Pantalone, Capitano, Dottore, Arlecchino, the Innamorata, Columbina, Brighella, Franceschina." Franceschina was known as the most intelligent women role in commedia. Columbina is also very intelligent however; she does not out-smart Brighella. It is also important to mention the women servants. They were characterized by sharp and malicious wit or gossipy gaiety. Also, usually helped the plot by being the helper of lovers and were flirting with male servants, which generally led to them marrying a male servant.

Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:07, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Lede sentence (pop-up) is unfocused

Doing a hover-over, the pop-up gives no definition nor concept of the topic. It gives unessential history and famous actors. Suggest this trimming and moving this existing to there:

Commedia is a form of theatre characterized by masked "types" which began in Italy in the 16th century, with improvised performances based on sketches or scenarios.
--2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:C0D1:5C88:8253:D748 (talk) 13:20, 20 March 2020 (UTC) Just Saying

Source has moved

http://www.factionoffools.org/history seems to have moved to https://www.factionoffools.org/whats-commedia and I'm not sure if that means that the source should be changed. If it should, I'd imagine someone should check to make sure all the sourced information is still there in the new article, which I can do. Jaxter184 (talk) 20:01, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

This archived version of 6 October 2016, shortly before it was used as a source, seems to be very similar in content. Probably you could link either the archived version or the new one, updating the retrieval date. --Robert.Allen (talk) 05:11, 27 October 2020 (UTC)