Talk:Common eland/GA3

GA Review

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Reviewer: Keilana (talk · contribs) 03:57, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi! I've listed my preliminary comments on the article below. I'll have more in the next 24 hours or so. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 03:57, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Lead - Done

• I really don't like having inline citations in the lead. As long as the facts are cited later, you're good to go.

 Done. I have removed all unnecessary citations but one or two, for facts not cited later on.

In that case, you should have those facts included and cited later on.

• If you prefer the Oxford comma (I do), you need commas after "open" and "Zambia".

Could not understand, please elaborate.

The Oxford comma is a comma before the last item in a list.

I do not use the comma actually, so it need not be included.

• "avoiding dense forests" should be "avoids dense forests".

 Done.

• The sentence beginning "It uses various forms of communication..." is awkward.

Could not understand, please elaborate.

Would it help if I suggested a wording?

Yes, fix the sentence as you think proper.

 Done

• You kind of imply that the leather is "rich and nutritious". Ew. Since leather makes for gross food, you should rewrite to clarify that only the milk is rich and nutritious.

 Done. Sorry for making such a silly mistake!

Haha no apology necessary, I just found it amusing. :)

• "but is still considered of least concern" - shouldn't this be "but it is still classified as 'Least Concern'"? Or is the literature different?

 Done. You are right, I have fixed it so.

Cool, thanks.

• There should be a "the" before "International Union for Conservation of Nature".

 Done.

Etymology - Done

• Do you have anything on what the eland is called in various African languages? I'd find that totally fascinating.

I found it is name in Swahili only (the one available). But I have not added it as it has no proper citations, yet some websites mention it.

Have you tried the Oxford English Dictionary?

Yes, see here. No mention of any other names.

• The phrase "which focuses at the pointed horns of North African antelopes like common eland and scimitar-horned oryx." is awkward.

 Done. I have tried to fix it, see if it is all right.

It was fine, I just added one "the" to fix it.

• Why was it named an "eland" in Dutch? I'm assuming this has something to do with the Boers, but I'd love an explanation in the article if that's possible.

I can add it, I think. But before it, I must tell you, I have some information below, I have written it in an arranged manner. Can it be added, do you think? I found it from here and here. See and if yes please fix it in the article; else this portion need not be included.

"The name eland is Dutch for elk. It has a Baltic source similar to the Lithuanian elnias, which means deer. It was borrowed earlier as ellan in the 1610s via French or ellend, which is the German form of the word. When Dutch settlers came to the Cape Province they named the largest wild ruminant herbivore they met with the name of the huge northern herbivore. In Dutch the animal is called "Eland antelope" to distinguish it from the elk, which is found in the northern boreal forests."

I didn't quite understand your comment; is this a quotation from the source or what you wrote?

No, this is the information I got from the two above mentioned sites, and have arranged as a proper paragraph. As you said, I looked over in the Oxford English Dictionary site, and have got the same information. Look here. I think I ought to add it.

 Done.

That's good, I made a couple copyedits for clarification and fixed the references.  Done

I have done all I could now. I have big hopes with this article, and it is almost at the point of being a GA. Please do not fail it this time. Any problems, do inform me. --Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 08:00, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

You're doing fine, no worries. It's got a lot of potential and I won't fail it unless you completely give up. It'll get there! :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 18:52, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Physical description - done

• Since the first sentence of this deals mainly with taxonomy, maybe you could move the information there. However, I would keep the bit about spiral horns in the physical description.

 Done. I have fixed it, omitted the part 'belonging to the Bovid tribe of Tragelaphini'. Really, no use of it.

• Reword "with females being smaller than males".

 Done.

• Again with the Oxford comma business, you would need a comma after "base of the tail" in both locations.

I have decided not to use this Oxford comma. Well, if it is necessary better you fix it for me in the whole article wherever needed.

Oops, must have forgotten. It's totally up to the writer, we just have different preferences. No big deal :)

• I would change "the tail adds a further 50-90 cm" to "the tail is 50-90 cm long".

 Done.

• You need to explain further (gloss) what "pelage" is, and you don't need to say "varies from place to place around the world". Instead, you can say "varies geographically".

 Done. Pelage means coat, so better replace it with that word. Thanks for the 'geographically', I was badly thinking for the appropriate word :) .

No problem!

• Can you explain what the distinctive markings on North African elands are?

 Done.

• Rewrite "Coats are generally smooth over most of the body except for a rough mane"; it's weakly worded.

 Done. Is it OK now?

Yes, that's lovely!

• "there may also be a series of white stripes vertically on the sides of bulls" can be reworded as "bulls may also have a series of vertical white stripes on their sides".

 Done.

• Move the part about aging males to the end of the paragraph. I would also suggest a stronger wording, like "As males age, their coat becomes tinged with grey" or "As males age, their coat becomes more grey".

 Done. I prefer the latter one.

Sounds good to me.

• "The horns of males are thicker and shorter than those of females (43–66 centimetres (17–26 in) long versus 51–69 centimetres (20–27 in)), as well as having a tighter spiral" needs a rewrite.

 Done.

• "Horns are used by males" should be rewritten in the active voice as "males use their horns" and " while females will stab predators with their horns" should be rewritten as something like "females use their horns to stab predators".

 Done.

• Can you explain more about the females' use of horns as a defense mechanism? Do males do it too?

 Done. Females use it also to defend children, males use for defense only.

• "Common elands are the slowest antelope" should either be "The common eland is the slowest antelope" or "Common elands are the slowest antelopes". I prefer the first option, but it's your choice.

 Done. I too prefer the former one.

• You need to split up the sentence about the speed.

 Done.

• This paragraph has a lot of parentheses; it's a bit choppy to read. Could you rewrite some/all of them?

Which paragraph do you mean? I do not notice so many brackets in the paragraph about speed and life expectancy, except for those in which measurements are given.

• "Life expectancy is generally..." should probably be "The common eland's life expectancy is generally..."; and the 2nd part should be rewritten, something like "The common eland's life expectancy is generally between 15 and 20 years; some live up to 25 years."

 Done.

• You need to specify if this life expectancy is for elands in the wild, and try to find some data on the life expectancy for captive elands.

 Done. Actually I forgot to write that. Captive elands may live for up to 25 years, wild ones live for 10-15 years.

• Can you explain a bit about what the eland communication may mean?

It is described in the 'Ecology and behavior' section. I do not think it should be explained here.

You're right, perhaps that's why I should read the article completely first! This is fine as is.

Taxonomy - done

• Oxford comma - after "Bovidae"

Not thinking of using it, if needed fix it (aforesaid).

• The correct plural is "common elands", right? You're inconsistent.

 Done. Haha, silly mistake!

• How is the giant eland related? I'd love an explanation of this.

Both common eland and giant eland are of the same genus. I don't think it requires explanation in the article, it is understood (as in other articles too).

Subspecies - done

• This section needs more detail for all of them.

I have given all available. I do not think it requires so much focus. However, if you find any, you can add it.

• Can you explain the thing about "validity requires investigation"?

I have been thinking of having the phrase omitted. I actually added it for the IUCN site mentioned it, but I do not quite understand it myself. What do you think?

I think I clarified it.

I know English isn't your first language (and I don't speak a word of Oriya), so if you have difficulty with the language/rewriting aspects I can always offer rewording suggestions and copyedits. I'd love to see this get promoted! I'm slowly working through all the sections and will keep posting as I get to them. You're doing a fantastic job; keep it up! Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 19:21, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, I will ask your help if I need it. (Thanks for seeing my user page if you have as you know my first language, I like people to see it!) Add more comments, I love to fix them as they do so good to the article. --Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 11:38, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Diseases and parasites - done

• You kind of imply that the second sentence is related to the first. Please clarify if this is true of not.

 Done.

• Explain how Clostridium can be harmful - what effects does it have, etc.

Sorry, couldn't add, there was no information.

• What kind of ticks are they hosts to?

 Done.

• "to Brucella bacteria" should be "for".

 Done.

• Specify which pneumoniae it's immune to.

 Done.

Genetics and evolution - done

• The first sentence needs to be rewritten.

 Done. I split it, better you see to it.

• Explain why this translocation occurred and what effects it has on the organism.

Sorry, no information about that.

• "they do not agree well" - you need to clarify what this means. Also, this isn't as formal as it could be.

Should I write 'match well'? Actually the definition need not be there, I think?

• "and the male eland" should be a semicolon instead of "and"

 Done.

• More details on eland-kudu hybrids? And the surrogacy thing?

Not much available.

I'll have more in a bit. Sorry this is such slow going. Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 18:30, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

It's all right. I hope this finishes in a week or so, as quickly as possible. There are not many sections left too. --Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 05:48, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• I don't particularly like the phrase " with fossils found throughout the continent (as well as some in France) and the best record appearing in sub-Saharan Africa". I'd preface that with a semicolon and say "fossils are found throughout Africa and France, with the best record appearing in sub-Saharan Africa" or somesuch.

 Done.

• Change the parenthetical phrase "the eland's tribe" to "The first members of the tribe Tragelaphini appear 6 million years"

 Done.

• Is there any detail on the animals it shares a common ancestor with?

Not more than what is in the article in most websites.

Ecology and behavior - done

• I suggest you split up the first sentence.

 Done.

• When is estrus normally?

 Done. Also see section 'Sociability and reproduction'.

• What benefit does associating with other species give them? Is there further research on this?

Sorry, no such thing. I think it should be as it is.

• "Females will urinate to both indicate fertility during the appropriate phase of their estrous cycle, as well as to indicate lack of fertility when harassed by males." needs some grammatical fixes. I'd suggest "Females will urinate to indicate fertility during the appropriate phase of their estrous cycle, as well as to indicate their lack of fertility when harassed by males."

 Done. Really, you are a wonder at fixing sentences!

• "until the entire herd feels" is unclear. What do they actually do?

 Done. Tried to fix, you may check further.

• Are the bulls trying to attract the attention of other elands or other species? Please clarify.

 Done. I think it is understood now.

• Reword "with juvenile elands being more vulnerable than adults".

 Done. Right now, isn't it?

• Is there anything about how they avoid predators? Survival strategies?

 Done.

I suggest you look at the notes I left in Etymology section, about the expansion. Its work should be finished fast. --Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 06:25, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Habitat and distribution - done

• " The species extends north into Ethiopia and most arid zones of Sudan, to the east into western Angola and Namibia, and now even into South Africa (Lydon)" - I would rewrite this as something like "The species extends north into Ethiopia and most arid zones of Sudan, east into western Angola and Namibia, and south to South Africa". I'm not sure what "Lydon" means in this context.

 Done. Wrong thing I wrote, 'Lydon' is redundant.

• You need "a" before "low density"

 Done.

• It's not terribly professional to say "poaching, human settlement, etc." Can you specify exactly what the reasons for the low population density are?

 Done.I would omit the 'etc.' and add more.

• Does that 3 elands/sq mi figure cover their whole area? Either way, can you clarify that in the text?

It is a general estimate where the elands commonly reside.

• Do you have a citation for it being reintroduced in Zimbabwe?

I can not remember the source I got it from; must be one of the citations in the article only.

• You need a comma after "bush"

 Done.

• You need an "and" before "Suikerbosrand NR"

 Done.

• You need a comma after "dry season".

 Done.

• Is there a citation for the home ranges paragraph?

I can not remember the source I got it from; must be one of the citations in the article only.

Diet - done

• This section seems a little thin. It could do with some expansion.

 Done.

• The phrase "of succulent leaves of flowering plants" should be rewritten so you don't have "of...of"

 Done.

Why does it say that the eland is "mainly" a herbivore? What else does it eat, apart from vegetable matter? I thought the main categories were herbivore, omnivore and carnivore, and that frugivore and foliovore, for instance, were sub-categories sorting under herbivore.Bcarlssonswe (talk) 18:30, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Sociability and reproduction

• "and is especially observed during the rainy season" is unclear.

 Done.

• "a distinct breeding season" is unclear.

 Done.

• "in which some males and females start mating with each other in separate groups" needs rewording and clarification - I'm not really sure what's going on here.

 Done.

• "they is in estrus" should be "they are in estrus". The sentence containing that phrase could use some reordering.

 Done.

• "most dominant and fittest" should be "most dominant and fit".

 Done.

• You need a comma after "females" in the 2nd paragraph. Also, the first sentence needs clarification.

 Done. How to fix the sentence?

I fixed it.

• I'm confused about the males - do they stay in the same area or do they roam? You imply both.

 Done.

• "secondly" is unnecessary.

 Done.

• I would reword "They travel around the plains full of grass in wet periods and during dry periods prefer bushy areas" to "They travel the grassy plains in wet periods and prefer bushy areas in dry periods."

 Done.

• You don't need to say "in an experiment it was found that", just jump right in and say "Females have a complex linear hierarchy."

 Done.

• In " It is often thought that it is the mother which determines a female's dominance. ", I wouldn't say "it is often thought that", rather, I would say something more specific.

 Done. Better omit the thing, it is just a belief!

That makes sense then!

• " In no more than 24 hours the mother and calf join this group. " clarify?

 Done.

• "according to their sex" is unnecessary.

 Done.

Conservation

• Can you clarify "conserved by the US Endangered Species Act"?

Sorry, can not.

• The population density figure in this section contradicts one in another section.

Can you say which section?

• You need to clarify "superior meat" or take it out (unless that's a phrase specifically used in the source), it's a bit peacocky for my taste.

 Done. Let it be. It is in the source.

• I would rephrase "now occur on private land" to "now live on private land".

 Done.

Uses

• I would change "utilized" to "used"

 Done.

• "due to their being more suited to their natural habitat" is awkward. Maybe "because they are more suited to African climates" or something.

 Done.

• "the logo of" is unnecessary, just say "in the coat of arms"

 Done.

Husbandry

• I don't like the use of a parenthetical phrase here, but I think surrounding it with emdashes should be ok.

Could you do that?

Yep.  Done

• I think "sorghums" should be singular, unless there's more than one species they need to eat.

 Done.

• Does your source say it's "pleasant-tasting"? Is there any more specific information about its taste? (I totally want to see eland milk in my local grocery store)

Yes it does. No more info.

• with "versus several days for cow milk", remove the parentheses and put a comma before the phrase.

 Done.

• "wild eland" and "common eland" should be plural

 Done.

• Why is calf survival low?

No such reasons I could find, I think because they do no grow as they do in the wild.

• I would rewrite " Husbandry requires care as while eland are generally not aggressive, they startle easily and require large amounts of space." as something like "Husbandry requires care because the generally placid animals startle easily and require large amounts of space."

 Done.

OK, just a couple more quick things. I really would like for you to find the citations for it bring reintroduced in Zimbabwe and the home ranges and put in inline citations. For the population density figure, I found it to contradict the one in "Habitat and distribution". I'm in the process of doing a final copyedit, so once you finish those two things and I finish copyediting, I'll pass it. :) Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 16:05, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Zimbabwe reintroduction: I found the citation at last. I decided to omit the sentence from the habitat section and rewrote it in the conservation one.

Home ranges:I cited a journal and another site, looks proper now.

Population density: Well, I rely upon the source of IUCN. I have put it all in the conservation section now.

I have fixed all as I thought proper. Thanks for your patient copyediting! --Sainsf <^>_{Talk all words} 06:40, 5 June 2012 (UTC)