Talk:Comstar wheel

First year

Clement Salvadori says it was a 1977 CBR750F here. Another author here, too. Brianhe (talk) 23:26, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

I have corrected the year and inserted the references you kindly provided. I had misread a Honda marketing document when it mentioned the year 1978, oops! Still trying to find a ref for a date they stopped using them but I suppose the were a few years of newer models with the ComCast wheels (1983 VT500) and older models still on Comstars ie the CB400N until 1986. MAbbey (talk) 04:51, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

It looks like the third paragraph still says 1978... Brianhe (talk) 06:05, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Construction

Found a couple of interesting reads on wire and cast wheels:

• http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=90
• http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/wire-wheel-maintenance-tech

There is no current article on motorcycle wheel, but just a short section at Motorcycle components#Wheels with no references. It would be interesting to know if the ComStar was the first Honda application of non-wire wheel tech, or maybe the first mass produced for major Japanese brands?

Question for other editors, how much detail should go here on the motorcycle industry's transition away from wire wheels, economic/performance considerations, new materials and fabrication techniques, etc. Interplay with better suspension systems might even be a factor the same way rigid instead of flexible frames became important. Cameron suggests so on p. 137 of Sportbike Performance Handbook (1998 ed.): "In the present era of 'relaxed chassis stiffness' I wouldn't be surprised to see spoked wheels, or something similar, make a comeback. There are already those who would welcome their flexibility and damping qualities".

Maybe there's an opportunity to expand other articles with the fruits of some of the research done here? Cameron's book (above) has got a whole chapter on wheels which could be a start. Brianhe (talk) 15:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

There is some interesting research and points that you have raised. Looking back through the Motorcycle Mechanics October 1979 400 cc test, out of the Honda CB400N, Kawasaki KH400 and KZ400C, Suzuki GS425EN and the Yamaha RD400E only the KH400 still has wire wheels. There must of been a very quick shift away from wire wheels and it will be interesting to see who started the trend. I did read in one of the articles referenced that in that early period Honda had claimed cast wheels were too porous, heavy and too rigid whilst promoting the benefits of the compound ComStar and its inbuilt degree of wire spoke style flex. I'll try to find the exact wording. MAbbey (talk) 20:14, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

In the January 1983 Cycle World road test of the CB1100F it has says "At one time Honda engineers criticized cast wheels as too rigid, saying that a motorcycle needs a certain amount of wheel flex, and stated that the problems with casting porosity made cast wheels unsafe." This is before the quote used already used in the article "...that technology has solved the casting porosity problem and that cast wheels are now used on Hondas for styling and marketing reasons". I'm trying to find more on this as I think its inclusion would be good as to the reason Honda chose to develop the Comstar composite design over the standard style of cast wheel that had already been used by the other manufacturers. MAbbey (talk) 14:09, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Found on page 37 June 1977 Cycle World a slightly skeptical piece on the ComStars. Link maybe here MAbbey (talk) 21:33, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

First tubeless tyre produced for a road machine

Just found this on Motorcycle Classics stating that the CX500 had the first tubeless motorcycle tyre on a production machine. Its on the fourth paragraph down. Good one for notability. MAbbey (talk) 22:26, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Interesting find, and improving notability is a great thing. Note that Triumph Bonneville T140 says alloy wheels were available since 1979, and Cameron says as early as 1973 (same book, same page referenced above) but doesn't specify which make/model. I guess they still required tubes? Brianhe (talk) 23:26, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Found this: "Mag wheels, or more correctly, cast alloy wheels, have attracted the undivided attention of a sizable number of street riders since their introduction in 1971." This article also talks about construction, inspection for cracks, early compatibility problems with drum rear brakes, and finally the advantages of less unsprung weight and higher stiffness. Source: "New ideas in wheels, forks and shocks", Cycle World, p. 65, June 1976 {{citation}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |work= (help) — Brianhe (talk) 00:09, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Hoping to get some more photos

Assuming this article can stay on here I would like to get a gallery of the various designs employed for the Comstar. The current picture is actually of my old CB400N but its only one of several different configurations they used. I'm hoping to attend a couple of big Bike meets in my local area in the next month or so. They usually have lots of period machinery and will try to get some photos to upload to the article. I may need some help with the formatting though! Cheers MAbbey (talk) 14:17, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Infobox needed?

First off great expansions from @Brianhe: and @Rocknrollmancer:. With all the content perhaps we could start a Composite wheel article?! On a slightly more serious note, I saw that the page has been assessed as needing an infobox. I have looked at a few other articles of a similar vein and cannot see why it would need one? Interested to know your thoughts on this? MAbbey (talk) 20:23, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I asked the same question on Rocknrollmancer'sWw2censor's talkpage. It looks like that assessment was a mistake? — Brianhe (talk) 20:30, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I just saw the reply on Ww2censor's page about the infobox. Not much can be done without a suitable template to use. Oh well, it doesn't detract from the article imo - MAbbey (talk) 20:47, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Similar products section.

I was just thinking that some of the text in the Similar products section would be better put to use in the Motorcycle wheel article. I would propose a main article template to Motorcycle wheel and thin move some of the content over to maintain relevance as it seems to be going a little off topic of composite wheels. As the other main contributors I'm interested to know your thoughts @Brianhe:, @Rocknrollmancer: - MAbbey (talk) 19:27, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Added motorcycle wheel link to lede. I agree with moving most content to motorcycle wheel (some of which is already there) except for the last paragraph on Dawson Harmsworth which is an explicit comparison to the Comstar. — Brianhe (talk) 19:40, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Agree, I didn't expect Brianhe to go so far off-topic with cast wheels after I added the similar product using sheet and spun/extrusions, but what was there needed to be right. I haven't looked at Motorcycle wheel.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:58, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Content has now been copied into Motorcycle wheel. A lot of the content had been copied over before by Brianhe for the initial draft so I have merged the supplementary content to the best of my ability. Hope all is well there. I'll leave the Comstar article alone just in case anyone feels there is more to extract. Thanks MAbbey (talk) 21:55, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Fly the Hawk

I don't understand the citation(s) for 1976 Endurance Racing - one alludes to an advert for 'Fly the Hawk'; is it a different content to this which mentions trailing calipers (only), similar to a RCB-941? --Rocknrollmancer (talk) 00:07, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

The advert ref was purely for the model number used by Honda. The endurance race bikes seem to given different designations by various sources so wanted to use the correct one for the article and used the advert just to back it up. MAbbey (talk) 09:36, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks, apologies for the deeeelay, I have had other pressing matters and kept intending to get back to this...I already had seen the sources added after I tagged the article (I took an infobox flag out) but guessed you'd rather do it yersen (bit of Ogri, there) than I do it for you. If you look at this substantial self-published site [23], there are a couple of images showing the RCB with Offenstadt wheels, different to the later-liveried version with Comstars on the Honda site showing Alex George's name as a stand-in rider for the later part of the season [24]. These were 'probably' the first European magnesium-based wheels commercially available from about 1973, again 'probably' on-par with American Kimtabs. They can be recognised by the asymmetric-arc sections, although there was another similar variation having the tangents diametrically-inline; may have been another make to avoid exact copying or a later development or an aluminium-alloy. I've seen them somewhere fairly-recently but can't recall...I'll add to my list.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:47, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

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