Talk:Congregationalism/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive of discussions for 2004 through 2012. Note: discusssions may be refactored.

Notes

You might add the the Congregational Church in the UK, which was quite big (and in which I was brought up, but you needn't mention that!) merged with the Presbies and became the United Reformed Church about thirty years ago? If you are interested I can easily get the history for you. My mother is a URC elder and has the history if relevant.

BozMo

This is mentioned in the article, congregationalism. Mkmcconn 22:59, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

United Kingdom/Annibynwyr

I have corrected the name of the Annibynwyr and added an english translation, while removing the welsh translations of the two counties. I have made Annibynwyr a link. I have left the name of the organisation in welsh, as that is what it is known as, even in English - they are referred to as the Annibynwyr, probably as a throwback to before the english speaking Congs joined the URC. --JonoP 16:37, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Page Name

We'd have to examine whether we'd get into any double redirects, but shouldn't the proper name of this page be "Congregational churches" and not "Congregational church"? That is, the focus of the article seems to be on the denominational tradition, not on instances of particular congregations--and in line with purely congregationalist polity, that would correctly be "Congregational churches" since no such thing as the "Congregational Church", denominationally speaking, can exist. Emerymat 00:37, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I follow what you are saying but there are articles entitled for example, 'Ship' and 'House', though there are many ships and many houses. Also, while your point is important in understanding the thinking behind the Congregational movement, it is a thought which may have escaped the reader until he has read the article. Hence, the important thing is to be sure that it is included it in the article. The point is made under 'Origins'. I leave it to you to judge whether it could be better made. :) (RJP 10:26, 13 February 2006 (UTC))

England

Could we have a fuller account of the history of Congregationalism (both in England and New England) and an explanation here of the relationship to to the other elements of the Old Dissent, particularly, Presbyterian and Unitatarian? This is not my field and I am thus not qualified to do it myself. I note that this is a Massachusetts project, but it has wider implications. Peterkingiron 17:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Theological spectrum

I have removed a comment on the theological positioning (conservative -> liberal) of congregational churches as it didn't fit well with the article, and was solely related to the US.

I agree with Peterkingiron that a greater exploration of where congregationalism came from, how it related to other elements of old dissent, how it was affected by the evangelical revival in the 18th/19th centuries, and ecumenism in the 20th century, and where that has left the movement theologically today would be useful. Sjoh0050 18:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Notable Independents and Congregationalists

Removed this extensive list of notable people who may have been Congregationalists. None are sourced and any that are listed must be properly and verifiably sourced. Further, there are millions upon millions of Congregationalists. This is akin to including a list of famous Jews in the article on Judaism or famous members of the Church of England on its article. It isn't encyclopedic, it isn't terribly useful, and it should not be in the article. If there is a consensus to return it to the article, each should be verifiably sourced.

• Lady Mary Abney - benefactor to Isaac Watts
• Abigail Adams (1744–1818) – raised Congregationalist but became Unitarian
• John Adams (1735–1826) – raised Congregationalist but became Unitarian
• John Quincy Adams (1767–1848)
• Samuel Adams - early American statesman
• James Burrill Angell - longest-serving president of the University of Michigan
• Benjamin E. Bates - philanthropist, founder of Bates College
• Henry Ward Beecher - clergyman and social reformer
• Margaret Wedgwood Benn - first President of the Congregational Federation
• Thomas Binney - the Archbishop of Nonconformity
• Jonathan Blanchard - pastor, educator, social reformer, abolitionist and the first president of Wheaton College.
• Margaret Bondfield - first female Cabinet Minister in the UK
• William Bradford - Pilgrim father and Governor of Plymouth Colony
• David Brainerd - missionary to the Indians in Massachusetts and in Delaware
• William Brewster - clergyman and Pilgrim father
• Aaron Burr, Sr. - second president of the College of New Jersey, now Princeton University
• Aaron Buzacott - missionary and translator in the South Seas
• S. Parkes Cadman - prominent Congregational Christian Churches clergyman and President of the Federal Council of Churches (1924-1928)
• George Caird - theologian
• Rev George Collison - theologian and educationalist, active in London Missionary Society
• George Collison - son of the above, same name, principal founder of the Congregationalists' non-denominational Abney Park Cemetery
• Constance Coltman - first woman ordained by the Congregational Union of England and Wales (1917)
• John Campbell - London pastor
• Josiah Conder - London editor and author
• Calvin Coolidge - 30th President of the United States and first honorary moderator of the Congregational Christian Churches
• John Cotton - clergyman
• John Curwen - clergyman and music pedagogue
• Francis Crick - Biologist
• Oliver Cromwell - English military leader, politician, and dictator
• Timothy Dewight - president of Yale University
• Walt Disney - animator & entertainment media mogul
• Philip Doddridge - hymn-writer
• Jonathan Edwards - theologian and president of the College of New Jersey, now Princeton University and missionary to the Housatonic Indians
• John Eliot - missionary to the Massachusett Indians
• William Ellis - early missionary to South Sea Islands and notable ethnographic author
• Rev. Alexander Fletcher - pioneer of children's services and religious events
• Thomas Hooker - clergyman and founder of Connecticut
• Hubert Humphrey - Vice-President of the United States, 1963-69
• Amy Klobuchar - U.S. Senator from Minnesota
• Eric Liddell - Olympic runner, missionary, focus of film 'Chariots of Fire'
• David Livingstone - missionary and explorer
• Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones - expository preacher and leader in the British evangelical movement
• John Lothropp - clergyman
• John Marsh - theologian
• Cotton Mather - clergyman
• Increase Mather - clergyman
• Richard Mather - clergyman
• Rev Dr Medhurst - Translator of the Bible into its first Chinese edition
• John Milton - poet
• Nathaniel Micklem - theologian
• Dwight Lyman Moody - 19th century evangelist, founder of the Northfield Schools and the Moody Bible Institute of Chicago, President of the Young Men's Christian Association, President of Christian Endeavor
• Paul Moon - History professor and author
• John Morison - London pastor, and editor of 'The Evangelical Magazine and Missionary Chronicle'
• Samuel Morley - manufacturer, philanthropist, abolitionist, educationalist and English MP
• Barack Obama - U. S. Senator from Illinois and Presidential Candidate in 2008
• John Owen - clergyman
• James Pierpont - founder of Yale
• Henry Richard - Secretary of the Peace Society and Welsh MP
• Sir Charles Reed - educationalist, politician, open space campaigner, reformer and typesetter
• Erik Routley - organist and hymn-writer
• Samuel Ryder - originator of golf's Ryder Cup and garden-seed entrepreneur
• James Sherman (minister) - popular 19th century preacher and abolitionist in London
• Roger Sherman - Founding Father of the United States and Deacon in Congregational Church New Milford, CT
• Solomon Stoddard - clergyman
• Harriet Beecher Stowe - abolitionist, author of Uncle Tom's Cabin
• Reuben Archer Torrey - evangelist and educator
• Samuel Ringgold Ward - African-American theologian and abolitionist
• Isaac Watts - hymn-writer, theologian and educationalist
• Nathan Webb - pastor, first new Massachusetts Congregational Church in Great Awakening period, 1731-1740
• Laura Ingalls Wilder - Noted author and pioneer
• John Williams - early missionary for the London Missionary Society
• John Winthrop - governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony

98.218.141.121 (talk) 12:21, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposed work group

There is currently discussion regarding the creation of a work group specifically to deal with articles dealing with the Congregational church, among others, here. Any parties interested in working in such a group are welcome to indicate their interest there. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 16:41, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Article layout

Is there any reason why the section on Origins comes after that on Canada? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

"With the demise of the monarchy"

We're talking about the monarchy of Great Britain which is still going, 400 years after the events talked about here??? Aarghdvaark (talk) 12:27, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

"the early congregationalists were called separatists or independents to distinguish themselves from the similarly Calvinistic Presbyterians"

So why is there a picture of Calvin accompanying this article? Calvinism is not really mentioned, except in the US. However even there Calvinism seems to be opposed to the Congregational church, as per the statement "Despite the efforts of Calvinists to maintain the dominance of their system, some Congregational churches, especially in the older settlements of New England, gradually developed leanings toward Arminianism, Unitarianism, Deism, and transcendentalism". Isn't outside control exactly what the Congregational church is against? Aarghdvaark (talk) 12:39, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Beliefs section?

Can we please have a straightforwards beliefs section so that we can see what the beliefs of this church are at a glance? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrmagikpants (talk • contribs) 12:13, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Archive 1

Article needs improvement

This article needs improvement. While there is some good information, there is no cohesiveness to it and there are gaps. While we need to represent the variety of Congregationalism around the world, my suggestion is that for those countries in which there is a lot of information available in English, such as in the US and I'm sure Britain, we should focus on building those sections up to eventually creating spin off articles such as Congregationalism in the United States to cover the specifically American developments in Congregationalist history, theology and church organization. I am currently working on such an article at User:Ltwin/Congregational church. Ltwin (talk) 00:36, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

So I went ahead and created Congregationalism in the United States since the US section of the article was getting quite large. Ltwin (talk)

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The Great Ejection

Currently the article states "In 1662 two years after the Restoration of the Monarchy 2000 Independent, Presbyterian and congregational ministers were evicted from their parishes as dissenters and not being in Holy Orders conferred by bishops". Is this accurate because while puritan ministers (often Presbyterians such as Richard Baxter) were ejected from the Church of England, did this include Congregationalists? If so I think it needs a source, because by their nature Independents tended to worship in their own places of worship not in established churches. -- PBS (talk) 07:13, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

@PBS: I believe its accurate. Puritans tended to come in 3 groups, those who were willing to remain under a "reformed" episcopacy, those who wanted the Church of England to have a presbyterian order, and those who wanted the national church to be radically reorganized along congregational lines. There were many Congregationalists within the Church of England who tried their best to work within the parish system, reforming it as much as they could. And of course, the Puritans who went to America were overwhelmingly Congregationalist, and they were insistent that they were not Separatists. I'll see if I can hunt down a source. Ltwin (talk) 11:41, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

The major source for the Great Ejection is A.G. Matthews‘ Calamy Revised (Oxford, 1934, reprinted 1988) which summarises Edmund Calamy’s volumes (1702, 1713 and 1727) on the men ejected in 1662.90.240.57.195 (talk) 09:59, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

"Congregational Church" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Congregational Church. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Cnilep (talk) 02:42, 10 October 2019 (UTC)