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A fact from Constantine Dalassenos (duke of Antioch) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 February 2011 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that the Byzantine general Constantine Dalassenos came twice close to ascending the throne and marrying the porphyrogenitaZoe, but was rejected in favour of less independent-minded candidates?
A fact from Constantine Dalassenos (duke of Antioch) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 July 2018 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because... Well maybe it should. I am attempting to rename the page as "duke" should be 'Duke'. My first time, but the instructions seemed straight forward. I assume that I made a mistake somewhere. --Gog the Mild (talk) 12:05, 7 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 6 years ago11 comments6 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Move as proposed. It appears we have consensus to render "duke" in lower case. The fact that it's being used descriptively rather than as a proper noun means that the capitalization guidelines are relevant. There is no consensus for the other suggested options, or for moving the admiral of the same name; if that move is desired, it can be proposed in its own RM. Cúchullaint/c19:39, 23 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
@Cplakidas and Peacemaker67: It seems to me that if we are going to translate doux then it becomes a proper noun and should be capitalised. If we are not, we have Constantine Dalassenos (doux of Antioch) which does not seem appropriate. To translate to duke and not consider it a proper noun is going to leave almost every reader (OK, not us three, but very few others) thinking it is a typo. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:11, 8 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
(edit conflict) Well, the reason I had it at "duke" in the first place is because the relevant English literature, when it bothers to translate the title, uses the lowercaps form precisely to distinguish it from the Western title of nobility. It is a job description, not a title, and hence comparable to Constantine Dalassenos (governor of Antioch), Constantine Dalassenos (general), etc.). I don't see why this is in any way or form a problem to have it in the title in lower case, TBH. Constantine ✍ 13:31, 8 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
This is not something I feel strongly about. I agree that you are technically correct, but feel that it would be confusing to the average reader and that a reasonable case can be made for Duke. However, as you were there first I will go with your decision. Sorry to have caused a storm in a tea-cup. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:38, 8 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Could the editor who closes this discussion (and performs a move if needed) please also check the talk pages and make sure all the discussion stays with the article? (I'm unsure if you have to merge or transclude, or what's appropriate.) Thanks. – Reidgreg (talk) 10:43, 10 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Comment. Of course the title should be lower cased. But the larger issue is that "Duke of Antioch" is a terrible disambiguator. I suggest "Byzantine general." Nine Zulu queens (talk) 23:53, 15 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Oppose because the thalassokrator was not just an admiral; he was also a commander on land. When I wrote the articles, I chose the disambiguation based on their most notable titles exactly because of that. Constantine ✍ 15:48, 22 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
