Talk:Consumer Credit Act 1974

Out of date

How can this be written without a single case more recent than 1970? Wikidea 09:46, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Everyone writing should also remember that shorter is better. If you can say it with fewer words, do. Lastly, semi colons are seldom necessary. Usually people don't know how to use them. A full stop is better. Wikidea 09:50, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

You should take a chance to look at the sources; at the time, there was little caselaw. I will make an attempt to improve the article when I have cleared the rest of my "stuff that needs writing but hasn't been" pile. Ironholds (talk) 11:57, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Well it has been replaced by the Consumer Credit Act 2006, so it is never going to be current. A good place to look for modern commentary on the 1974 Act might be the Hansard records of the debate on the 2006 Act, where Hon Members are likely to have said why the '74 act needed to be replaced. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:12, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

No, it has amended the 1974 Act. Much of the original Act is still valid, while some bits (credit limits, exceptions, unfair relationships, OFT powers) have been modified or removed. Ironholds (talk) 00:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

In January 2010 we consulted on extending the Approved Persons regime to those staff who provide advised and non-advised sales to consumers and to those who are responsible for overseeing compliance. As part of our credible deterrence philosophy, the aim of our proposals is to make those individuals personally accountable for any misconduct —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.219.247.38 (talk) 14:01, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Could you add this to the article, citing a publication or publically accessible report that mentions it, please? Or at least supply the references here so that somebody else can do it? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 22:44, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

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*Really* out of date

The Act has mostly been repealed, and replaced (I understand) by the provisions of the Regulated Activities Order, made under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, itself recently amended very substantially.

is there a banner that could go on the main article header? OnceATeacher (talk) 08:18, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

@OnceATeacher: The last sentence of the lead reads The Act was amended by the Consumer Credit Act 2006. If there is a more recent Act than 2006, we don't seem to have an article about it - see list at Consumer Credit Act (disambiguation).

(The article is specifically about the 1974 Act, not about UK Consumer Credit legislation in general. It is a valuable historical record for anyone wanting a quick overview of the development of the UK's CC laws. So it can never be "out of date" in that context.) Can you remember what link you followed to get you to this article? because maybe that is where the clarification needs to go. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:21, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Fair point about the historical record. I got here from DuckDuckGo searching for the name of the Act itself, hoping to find a summary of the more recent changes. I think the disambiguation page probably isn’t the place for the recent changes as it’s about the name of the Act. But since the functions of the Act have to a large extent been taken into the RAO & FSMA, I think perhaps that fact should be reflected in this article (along with a shift to historical tenses). Maybe I should just get on and make that change! OnceATeacher (talk) 15:20, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

You would have to add it to the See Also section, though would probably be more appropriate to do so on Consumer Credit Act 2006 page, which [despite what you say] appears to be the relevant current legislation (with supplementary Orders, aka "recent changes") – are you certain that you understand the current status correctly?

And of course there would have to be a target article for the "see also". Which is? (The Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 article says nothing about Consumer Credit, but it does say that it was heavily amended by the Financial Services Act 2012, which also says nothing about Consumer Credit. Are those Acts addressed to lenders?)

It may be that you have identified a "gap in the information market" on Wikipedia: if someone comes here looking for information about the relevant UK law, they will not get much help. The article Consumer credit redirects to Credit, which could generously be called superficial. But it is not the role of Wikipedia to be the repository for that kind of information but we can certainly (in the "External links" section, provide information about where those repositories are. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:49, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for all that info.

"would probably be more appropriate to do so on Consumer Credit Act 2006 page, which [despite what you say] appears to be the relevant current legislation (with supplementary Orders, aka "recent changes") – are you certain that you understand the current status correctly?"

Yes: the 2006 Act is an amending act, which means the original enactment (1974) is the operative one. The 2006 Act wouldn't be referred to in contracts, for example, nor (at least generally) in subsequent legislation: a reference to an Act is (unless the contrary intention appears) to the Act as amended. Consistent with this, the revised text of the 1974 Act at legislation.gov.uk is usable, but the 2006 Act can be read only by constant cross-reference to the original text of the 1974 Act. On a quick scan I was unable to find a single standalone provision in the 2006 Act - all of its provisions appear to revise the 1974 Act. The 1974 Act is still good law ('the relevant current legislation'), albeit much amended.

I will have to have a good look at the FSMA. I dare say you're right that it doesn't refer to consumer credit directly: most of the heavy lifting of that Act is done by the Regulated Activities Order, made under it. See Chapter 14A of the Order (as many times amended...) for the bits most relevant to consumer credit. Eg, articles 60C-60H of the RAO replace sections 16-16C of the 1974 Act (as amended). The policy of the RAO with respect to consumer credit is broadly similar to the Consumer Credit Act - sufficiently so that I feel a reference in the lead of this article would be perfectly justifiable: if we think it's relevant to mention the amending 2006 Act there, then it's surely relevant to mention the amending FSMA/RAO, also. OnceATeacher (talk) 18:11, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

At that point, I think we are talking about a different (new?) article about consumer credit law in the UK. Whilst it would be legitimate to add a brief note to the 1974 (and 2006, for safety) articles, it would not be appropriate to use them as a wp:coatrack for a substantial extension.

To be clear, I have no concerns about your good faith and, as I've already identified, there is a large deficiency to be made good. Even more relevantly, I have no expertise in this topic: I only have a watch on it because of IVA spam a few years ago. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 22:06, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Revisions of 1 June

@OnceATeacher: your revisions look good to me, though I have no grasp of the detail. Thank you. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Great. There’s a bit more to do on past-tensing parts of the act now repealed but I’ll keep that for a rainy day! OnceATeacher (talk) 11:56, 2 June 2024 (UTC)