Talk:Consummation

Law

Civil

195.70.48.242 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) b egan a two-'graph contrib by quoting from the accompanying article:

"In the United States legal system, there have been Supreme Court rulings that a marriage could be declared null and void if it had not been consummated."

OK, so how can two 75-year-old widows marry each other then?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.70.48.242 (talk) 15:37, 11 November 2004

• The same freaky way everybody else does and people have been doing for millenia! Or, if vaginal sexual intercourse is unsuccessful, they have not, in fact, married. -Acjelen 02:19, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
• The point you are missing is that the marriage could be declared null and void, not is automatically declared null and void.

A 75-year-old widow and a 75-year-old widower (which is what I will assume you meant, since U.S. laws do not allow people of the same gender to marry) could marry and if they were unable to consummate the marriage and if one or both of them wanted to end the marriage for that or other reasons, then U.S. law allows the marriage to be annulled rather than divorced, because of the lack of consummation. VermillionBird 15:10, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

• except in massachusetts pal! ;p 71.232.108.228 05:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
  • This IP presumably refers to the legalization of gay marriage that is slowly sweeping the nation, not to anything relevant to the accompanying article.
    --Jerzy•t 21:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
    

• You've got George Burns rolling over in his grave with your notions of the possible! Have you and your love tried Viagra and hormone supplements?
  --Jerzy•t 21:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
  

Canon

I've changed the text concerning the catholic marriage. The text read "Within the Catholic Church, a valid marriage that has been sanctioned by the church cannot be dissolved in any manner after it has been consummated" which is a half true. ALL catholic valid marriage cannot be dissolved in any manner, consummated or not!
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.67.173.8 (talk) 20:59, 14 February 2006

• I wrote the last two 'grafs of this contrib before stopping to think of the fact that the change 213 made would surely answer my questions. The new text was

  ... a refuse to consummate the marriage are one of the main reasons to obtain an annulment.

and my first impression was right, so i am letting the following stand:
I have not idea what is intended to be communicated by the final, unhelpful, and grotesquely constructed sentence, unless it is that the lack of consummation means the marriage never became valid, and whatever it is called when (what i call) "annulment" occurs is a recognitions of that it was never valid, not an invalidation. If that's not the point, we need more info.
BTW, this is an example of the need for careful choice of words. A couple's valid marriage CAN be dissolved or annulled (in the absence of children, arrests for public indecency, or good-quality photographs taken at sex clubs) for any partners who are willing to lie to the pope. Oh, wait, i'm assuming such dissolutions are not issued ex cathedra. On the other hand, if they are, we have to deal with NPoV problems, since some asshole will question whether there's anyone omniscient out there whispering in the Pope's ear everytime he's lied to about that.
--Jerzy•t 22:20, :21, & 22:38, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

• I would love for 213 to articulate a valid reason that the marriages of Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman and of Mel Gibson and his former wife were able to be annulled; since by any standard, those are valid marriages. Mel's got a flock of kids, and Tom and Nicole were raising adopted children at least. There are plenty of such marriages where annulments have been made in our local area (and anyone's for that matter); but that is what happens when a unnecessarily strong stand is taken against divorce. I speak as a Roman Catholic convert, but I have a brain also.

By the way, regarding the comment in the article that sexual intercourse in the presence of contraception might not constitute consummation, how about a situation like I have in my own marriage, where my wife had had a hysterectomy prior to our wedding and cannot physically have children? Contraception can fail, but no womb, no child. Shocking Blue (talk) 18:38, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Title

Consummation is a Dab pointing to the accompanying article's non-conforming title "Consummate". While the accompanying article is a borderline stub, it deserves substantial expansion. The 4-decade-old failed-Grammy-nominated album has never claimed to be the primary topic (even tho it was already a Rdr rather than article), and i think the expectation that "Consummation" gets you to the marriage-related concept is reasonable, while the expectation that it gets you to the album is unreasonable for anyone but a jazz wonk.
I am accordingly effecting the move, and reducing the existing Dab at "Consummation" to a harmlessly useless Dab that preserves history and will save recreation if further senses get articles.
--Jerzy•t 21:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Sexual or ceremonial?

I found, and am rewriting

Technically speaking, consummation in the marriage context refers to its actual beginning, with an official ceremony of a wedding, witnesses to the event, and a public announcement of the act. In some Western traditions, a marriage is not considered a binding contract until and unless it has been consummated. In a colloquial context, marriages, love relationships, or relations for pleasure, are said to be consummated when the act of sexual intercourse has taken place after the ceremony.

"Technically" is too ambiguous: civil-legal technicalities, canon-legal ones, linguistic ones, fercrissakes psychological technicalities? Webster's Collegiate (1976) has

1

a: FINISH, COMPLETE <~ a business deal>

b: to make perfect

2: to make (marital union) complete by sexual intercourse <~ a marriage>

Any technical senses not requiring at least sexual intimacy need their technicality specified much more clearly than that to make their mention encyclopedic. It certainly is true that the ceremony consummates a courtship and is a consummation, but it is not the consummation of a marriage in any sense worthy of mention in this article.
--Jerzy•t 21:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge "Celibate marriage" here?

Celibate marriage is 1-line dictdef that defines the term in terms of non-consummation. It's been that way over a year, and seems unlikely to grow. That single sent could be fitted into the accompanying article, leaving a Rdr behind (which could be revived as a real stub by anyone prepared to write something encyclopedic. Why not?
--Jerzy•t 02:16, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Redirected merge tag to Sexless marriage, which I think is a more similar topic... AnonMoos (talk) 15:30, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

How is non-consummation of marriage proved in a court in INDIA

How is non-consummation of marriage proved in a court in INDIA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.239.231.147 (talk) 08:18, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Sexual sadism? Is mere sex not enough? --78.62.13.127 (talk) 11:21, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

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Is there a time frame for consummation after marriage before you're able to be make it legal

what is the time frame for conservation to happen before a marriage is either legal or illegal or you're able to be considered a couple or able to get divorced 2601:645:8700:D830:D590:AA01:A338:17C6 (talk) 09:32, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Frankly, quit insulting

"In many traditions, consummation is an important act because it suggests the bride's virginity; the presence of blood is erroneously taken as definitive confirmation that the woman was a virgin."

No one says they think it to be a definitive confirmation of virginity; rather, as mentioned in the beginning of the sentence, it suggests virginity, (actually much more than "suggest").

What do you think about it? ZucherBundlech (talk) 13:55, 25 July 2024 (UTC)