Talk:Hillary Clinton
(Redirected from Talk:Controversies surrounding Hillary Rodham Clinton)
Latest comment: 2 days ago by Dimadick in topic "Despite winning the popular vote"
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Q1: Was there a dispute about what the article title should be?
A1: Yes. From the early days on it was "Hillary Rodham Clinton", but over the years there were many formal requests for moves to change it to "Hillary Clinton". Discussions found no consensus on the article name until June 2015, when one found consensus and the article was moved to its current title. See the "This page was previously nominated to be moved" box elsewhere on this page for full details and links to the discussions – note some have to be revealed under the "Older discussions" link. There are strong feelings on both sides and discussions get progressively longer and more heated. Q2: The section on her 2016 presidential campaign leaves out some important things that have happened. What gives?
A2: The main article is tight on space and the presidential campaign section is intentionally brief and kept to what is biographically most relevant. The daughter article Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, 2016 has a much fuller treatment of the campaign and is where the greatest level of detail should go, especially anything describing the day-to-day, to-and-fro, ups-and-downs of a campaign. Q3: This article is POV! It's biased {for, against} her! It reads like it was written by {her PR team, Republican hatchet men}!
A3: Complaints of bias are taken very seriously, but must be accompanied by specific areas of concern or suggestions for change. Vague, general statements do not help editors. Edits that add {{pov}} tags without providing a detailed explanation on the talk page will likely be reverted. Q4: Where is the article or section that lists her controversies?
A4: There isn't one. All controversial material is included in the normal biographical sections they occur in, in this article (including sometimes in Notes or footnotes) and in the various daughter articles. Having a separate "controversies" or "criticisms" article or section is considered a violation of WP:NPOV, WP:Content forking, and WP:Criticism and also raises significant WP:BLP concerns. A special effort was undertaken to rid all 2008 presidential candidates' articles of such treatment – see here – and the same was done for other politicians' articles, including all the 2012 and 2016 candidates. This approach was also confirmed by the results of this AfD and this AfD. Q5: Something in the lead section doesn't have a footnote. I'm going to put a {{citation needed}} tag on it.
A5: This article, like many others on Wikipedia, uses the approach of no citations in the lead section, as everything in the lead should be found in the body of the article, along with its citation. See guideline: MOS:LEADCITE. |
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I just searched for "deplorables" in the article
editand the word is not there. That's the most consequential word she said in her life, it should be in the article. 86.31.178.164 (talk) 12:17, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- It's there - the page template has a link to the article, Basket of deplorables. BD2412 T 13:54, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Please specify exactly where it is on the page; I can't find it. YoPienso (talk) 14:10, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- In the page footer, there is a template titled "Hillary Clinton"; click [show] and it is in the template. BD2412 T 14:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. So, for all practical purposes, it's not in the article; it's buried and hidden from all but the most assiduous seekers. That may be OK in the BLP, but it should be in plain view in Public image of Hillary Clinton. It's not, at present. Let's fix that. YoPienso (talk) 14:41, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Why is it important? It seems more relevant to the article about the 2016 campaign. TFD (talk) 15:10, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- That sounds reasonable, and there it is, in its own little sub-subsection, with a link to a full article. Thanks! YoPienso (talk) 17:55, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Why is it important? It seems more relevant to the article about the 2016 campaign. TFD (talk) 15:10, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. So, for all practical purposes, it's not in the article; it's buried and hidden from all but the most assiduous seekers. That may be OK in the BLP, but it should be in plain view in Public image of Hillary Clinton. It's not, at present. Let's fix that. YoPienso (talk) 14:41, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- In the page footer, there is a template titled "Hillary Clinton"; click [show] and it is in the template. BD2412 T 14:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
- Please specify exactly where it is on the page; I can't find it. YoPienso (talk) 14:10, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
WJLA: "2016 Clinton campaign, PAC skirted federal financing rules, court finds"
editWJLA is the ABC News affiliate in Washington D.C. They just published an article called "2016 Clinton campaign, PAC skirted federal financing rules, court finds."
Is this the kind of subject that should be covered in this article?
Does this source meet the standards for info on living people?
"Despite winning the popular vote"
editThis phrase isn't neutral. Hillary did not lose "despite" winning the popular vote; winning the popular vote isn't actually connected to winning orl losing the U.S presidency. It's notable enough to mention, but in a more neutral phrasing like "while winning the popular vote." I notice Donald Trump's page says he "won the election while losing the popular vote." Woozybydefault (talk) 17:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
- "winning the popular vote isn't actually connected to winning orl losing the U.S presidency" It is highly notable. We have a List of United States presidential elections in which the winner lost the popular vote, and this has only happened in 5 highly controversial elections. Dimadick (talk) 21:25, 20 July 2024 (UTC)