Talk:Cooperative banking

Boundaries (Coop Bank vs. Credit Union)

Please be careful about observing the distinction between cooperative banks (this article) and credit unions. Cooperative banks can clearly be differentiated if they have a second class of shareholders, for example because they are listed on a stock market. Even without this however, cooperative banks are more centralized than credit union systems. The primary or local level societies surrender more independence, including for example permitting the central office to have a say in the hire of a new local CEO. For example in Canada Mouvement Desjardins is a quasi-cooperative bank, unlike anything in English Canada, where there are only credit unions.Brett epic (talk) 14:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it will be confusing to readers to try to draw this distinction too sharply. In a lot of the literature, credit unions are often called cooperative banks (such as Raiffessen banks) or alternatively, credit unions are described as conducting cooperative banking. Similarly, the building society movement overlaps with cooperative movement, and can be said (for the purposes of an encyclopedia article) to be conducting cooperative banking. I am not sure if it benefits the reader for us to include mutual savings and loan associations, but exclude credit unions.

In other words, I don't see it as a boundary, as you suggest, but an overlap. For example, the Rabobank and the Credit Agricole are both federations of credit unions, and cooperative banks, simultaneously. (Further, as one editor has said, they are so deeply involved in capital and money markets that notable commentators regard them as betraying cooperative principles and being semi-cooperative.)

To address your point on centralization, my view is that some cooperative banking institutions are simply more centralized (and have more outside investors) than others. Both the centralized banks, and the local credit unions, are still doing cooperative banking, but in different ways, with different results, and probably also with different (but overlapping) principles.

I propose that we start to develop the article along the following lines:

Cooperative banking (for the purposes of this article), includes retail banking, as carried out by credit unions, mutual savings and loan associations, building societies and cooperatives, as well as commercial banking services provided by mutual organizations (such as cooperative federations) to cooperative businesses.

The sentence is a bit clumsy and I would like to tidy it up. However the principle I would like to communicate is that we risk confusing readers if we don't address, at least briefly, the whole cooperative banking sector, from microfinance to covered bonds.

The first piece I want to make a start on is the early origins, and the late 20th century history, of the whole sector. What do you think?

--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 10:19, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Hroðulf, given the current situation, your proposed introductory sentence seems quite reasonable to me. Much hangs on the distinction between 'cooperative bank' (which this article is technically not about) and 'cooperative bankING'. Of course credit unions are engaged in 'cooperative banking'. But in an article on 'cooperative banking' it is still useful to clearly distinguish between a 'cooperative bank' and a 'credit union' as institutions. There is no 'overlap' between an institution that is based on principles of member ownership and control, and one that has muddied that principle by introducing competing claims on control. There is a clear boundary. That boundary is represented by a global apex organization (WOCCU), and by the 9 principles of credit unions ratified by WOCCU's members. I agree that some cooperative banks may want to represent their primary societies as 'credit unions'. This seems to me to be no different in substance (albiet marginally less flagrant) than the endlessly repeated efforts of governments around the developing world to represent various state-led institution-building projects as 'cooperatives' -- in spite of the fact that state control blows apart the basic principle of the cooperative identity. It is rhetoric designed to validate a project that dilutes member control and wrap the promoters in borrowered legitimacy. With respect to European cooperative banks, I think they have enough resources, imagination and entrepreneurial initiative at their disposal that they shouldn't have to mislead the public with words like 'cooperative' that they are fully aware don't apply to them. + == List of banks? ==

Much of the content of the present article is really not about 'cooperative banking' -- which is such a broad topic and so conceptually muddled (as identified in your introductory statement) that it's difficult to see the point of it. It is actually about 'cooperative banks' and I suggest that an article on 'cooperative banks', which is conceptually tighter and would be much more easily found by the average browser in Wikipedia, makes more sense. Excuse my frankness -- which is not in any way personal -- but you asked a clear question, so I have answered it as clearly as I could.Brett epic (talk) 18:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

how oprate ccb system JITENDERA AGARWAL (talk) 13:55, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

List of banks?

I think it would be helpful to include a table with the following layout:

Notable cooperative banking institutions

Name	Country	Members (2007)	Assets (2007 US$)	Type	Alternative name	Notes
Crédit Agricole	France			Joint stock bank	CASA	Majority owned by federation of credit unions
Shared Interest	UK	8447		Cooperative lending society		Finance for Fair trade

Is this format useful?

--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 18:01, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

This format looks very useful.Brett epic (talk) 18:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Your thoughts on inclusion criteria for the list will be welcomed. Everything 'notable' can be farmed off one day into a separate article at List of cooperative banking institutions, but I would like to see the highlights of a list remain at Cooperative banking#List. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 11:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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Dr. Destefanis's comment on this article

Dr. Destefanis has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

I agree about the extant comment for the United States.

For continental Europe, I would add that a difference exists in Italy between banche popolari and banche di credito cooperativo. Both belong the family of cooperative banking, but have different capital requirements and legal regimes. The most significant difference is that banche di credito cooperativo lend money and provide other services primarily to cooperative members. See https://www.mps.it/investors/ricerca-analisi/mercati-creditizi-e-finanziari/Mercato%20Bancario%20e%20Finanziario/European_cooperatives_banks_BCCs_vs_BPs.pdf;

or http://www.creditocooperativo.it/template/default.asp?i_menuID=35356

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

We believe Dr. Destefanis has expertise on the topic of this article, since he has published relevant scholarly research:

• Reference : Cristian Barra & Sergio Destefanis & Giuseppe Lubrano Lavadera, 2013. "Regulation and the Crisis: The Efficiency of Italian Cooperative Banks," CSEF Working Papers 338, Centre for Studies in Economics and Finance (CSEF), University of Naples, Italy.

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